(BDM) BDM Support Guide for Business Units 1
This document outlines the various support requirements that a Business Unit will engage in to support users in their day-to-day use of BDM. The document is organized into sections based on the following requirements: 1. Adding Users to BDM 2. Removing Users From BDM 3. PC & Browser Configuration for BDM 4. Scanning Settings and Suggested Standards 5. Communication & Reporting BDM Issues To provide the highest level of support to BDM users, there should be a designated point of contact, a BDM Functional Specialist, within a Business Unit. This person, or persons, will be responsible for providing the support services described in this document to their users and liaising with CCS. BDM users throughout the Business Unit and other areas that collaborate with the Business Unit should be instructed to use this person(s) as the primary point of contact for service issues, problems, etc. This approach will provide the best interface between the user community and CCS and assist in speedy and thorough resolution of requests and issues. NOTE as part of the MC1 initiative, the assigning and removing of user access to Carleton University services is being redesigned. This may impact the processes that this document outlines and illustrates. Therefore, as MC1 progresses we will review the BDM process and modify it where required to integrate with MC1. Updates of this document will be provided at those times. 2
Table of Contents Page 1. Adding Users to BDM 4 2. Removing Users From BDM 6 3. PC & Browser Configuration for BDM 7 4. Scanning Settings & Suggested Standards 16 5. Communication & Reporting BDM Issues 19 6. Appendix A 20 7. Appendix B 21 8. Appendix C 23 3
Adding Users to BDM When a user has the need to view or manage documents in BDM they will need to be granted appropriate access and privilege. There are three general questions to ask when adding users to BDM: 1. Does this person already have Banner access? 2. Is this a new user to BDM? 3. Is this an existing user in BDM requiring new or different access? The answer to these questions will dictate the process and the details collected and provided to the CCS Service Desk. In the case of a brand new user there are additional considerations beyond adding them to BDM. The user will need to have their PC configured for BDM use. The configuration process is covered in subsequent sections. The current process for adding and managing users in Banner is as follows: A designated request submitter uses the submission web form to submit a request to the CCS Service Desk Upon receipt of such a request the CCS Service Desk has it validated by the appropriate authorizer for the access requested. The authorizer provides confirmation and additional info or corrections if needed The CCS Service Desk completes the request This process will be followed for managing users in BDM as well. The implication is that the Business Units will be required to have a designated authorizer (i.e. the BDM Functional Specialist) for all BDM user requests. This authorizer will be mandated to submit or confirm all requests to the CCS Service Desk relating to BDM access for their specific business area and to their BDM Applications and documents. The intended process flow is for the designated BDM Functional Specialist to submit user requests for BDM access to the CCS Help Desk. However, given the distributed process currently in place for submitting user access requests for Banner to the CCS Help Desk it is not unlikely that some BDM access requests will get submitted by users and the BDM Functional Specialist will have to authorize them when contacted by the CSS Help Desk. These BDM Functional Specialists will need to possess specific knowledge about the structure of user and group security for their specific BDM Applications. This process only applies to Banner users. Users that will access documents through Self-Serve Banner (i.e.ssb) do not need to be added to BDM. The integration of BDM with SSB handles all user access. Users that will need to access documents as a result of work they are doing in Banner INB will need to be added with this process. 4
The Process: 1. A user requiring access to documents in BDM contacts the BDM Functional Specialist responsible for the business office that owns the documents. OR A request to provide a user access to documents in BDM is submitted to the CCS Service Desk and the CCS Service Desk seeks authorization for the request from the designated BDM Functional Specialist. 2. The BDM Functional Specialist will first determine if the user in question already has Banner access. o If Yes proceed with the request to add the user to BDM o If No have the CCS Service Desk first set the user up with Banner access Note the step of setting the user up in Banner may have to go through a different submission process or submitter. It is simply being noted that before BDM access can be granted and set up the user needs to be set up in Banner 3. Determine what BDM user group(s) the person needs to be added to. By determining the BDM user group(s) you will also determine the Banner class(s) they need to be added to. Refer to Appendix B for the complete list of BDM user groups and their corresponding Banner classes. 4. Ensure the user access request includes the following information and proceed with submitting or authorizing the request to the CCC Service Desk: a. The users Banner ID b. The user s full name c. The user s Banner Username d. The Banner class(s) the user needs to be added to Upon receipt of the request a CCS Service Desk technician will create a service manager ticket to carry out the required work. The technician will follow the steps to add the user to BDM as outlined in the document BDM Support Guide for CCS Service Desk. Once complete, the technician will close the ticket and return a confirmation notice the BDM Functional Specialist that submitted or authorized the request. Please see Appendix C for a sample request to have a user added to BDM. 5
Removing Users from BDM When users leave Carleton University or change roles, thereby no longer requiring access to documents in BDM, they must be removed from BDM. This removal may be a complete removal from all BDM user groups or it may be a partial removal. Examples: 1. A user has access to Undergrad Admission documents and Graduate Admission documents. The user leaves Carleton University. Remove the user from all groups that provide access to these documents. 2. A user has access to Undergrad Admission documents and Graduate Admission documents. The user changes roles and no longer requires access to any of these documents. Remove the user from all groups that provide access to these documents. 3. A user has access to Undergrad Admission documents and Graduate Admission documents. The user changes roles and no longer requires access to Graduate Admission documents. Remove the user from groups that provide access to Graduate Admission documents but leave in groups that provide access to Undergrad Admission documents. The steps for removing a user from BDM security are similar to the steps for adding a user and are outlined below. The Process: 1. A request to be removed from BDM is submitted to a BDM Functional Specialist responsible for the documents the user no longer requires access to. OR A request to remove a user s access to documents in BDM is submitted directly to the CCS Service Desk the CCS Service Desk seeks authorization for the request from BDM Functional Specialist. 2. The BDM Functional Specialist determines what BDM user group(s) the person needs to be removed from. By determining the BDM user group(s) s/he will also determine the Banner class(s) they need to be removed from. See Appendix B for the complete list of BDM user groups and their corresponding Banner classes. 3. Ensure the user removal request includes the following information and proceed with submitting or authorizing the request to the CCC Service Desk: a. The user s Banner ID b. The user s full name c. The user s Banner username d. The Banner class(s) the user needs to be removed from 6
PC and Browser Configuration for BDM The Carleton University implementation of BDM makes use of an EMC, web based, document management tool called WebXtender. For fullest functionality and user experience, there are several configurations and component installs that are required on a user s PC. The remainder of this section provides details and instructions on PC and Browser configurations and installs. Supported Browsers WebXtender is supported on several browsers and O/S. However, it should be noted that the user experience will differ based on the browser being used. These differences are not the result of the O/S but rather the browser due to support or non-support of Active X. The following chart presents some noted points on the common browsers and O/S at Carleton University. This is not an official support matrix from the vendor, Ellucian. Browser O/S What to Expect Internet Explorer Windows (XP & 7) Provides the best user experience. Offers full functionality through an Interactive Client mode with Active X component support. FireFox & Chrome Windows (XP & 7) Document rendering is most efficient in this mode. A deprecated user experience compared to IE. The lack of Active X support will result in a Thin Client mode of operation. Many features are not available in thin client mode and document rendering is handled differently. Performance is impacted in Thin Client mode. Safari MAC A deprecated user experience compared to IE. The lack of Active X support will result in a Thin Client mode of operation. Many features are not available in thin client mode and document rendering is handled differently. Performance is impacted in Thin Client mode. It is important to note that the difference between Thin Client and Interactive Client (IRC) can be significant. IRC is only supported in Internet Explorer due to the need for Active X for IRC. It is the IRC, and the Active X components that provide the full functionality of BDM. Users can be pointed to the BDM Web Site to view the FAQ page for answers to some of the common questions and problems encountered: http://www5.carleton.ca/bdm/ 7
Active X Components WebXtender provides users the ability to view and manage documents within BDM. Many of the document actions or tasks within WebXtender rely on a specific Active X component. If the component is not installed on the user s PC that particular task will not be available to the user. This implication also exists if WebXtender is being used on a central scanning station. Essentially, any PC or workstation that WebXtender is being used on will require the Active X components. Note Active X only works for Internet Explorer. Non-IE browsers will not allow Active X to be detected, downloaded or installed. Therefore, WebXtender is best used in Internet Explorer to gain fullest functionality. Component Detection and Installation The required Active X components are available for download from the BDM server through WebXtender. Users must be the administrator of their PC to download and install them using this method. WebXtender automatically detects the existence or non-existence of the Active X component when a user attempts to carry out a task where Active X is required. If the component is not detected WebXtender will do two things - notify the user that they must install the component and display an error message. The screen shots below illustrate how IE8 and IE9 do this: IE8 Display of Error Message and Install Notice 8
IE9 Display of Error Message and Install Notice In both cases the error message will typically read as follows: Error: The IE browser does not support or could not load OBJECT classid:############## While the install notice will look something like: This website wants to install the following add-on: <Component Name> from EMC Corporation. Click to install. In many cases, however, the user is not the administrator of their PC. This presents a problem as they will not be able to install the Active X components through WebXtender. The CCS Windows Group has resolved this issue by creating a package of these components that they push out to user PCs on the CUNET domain. This push installs the components in the designated location on the user s PC. This push is carried out over the network and runs periodically on a schedule. When the components are pushed to the user PC they do not get completely installed. WebXtender will still display the error to the user when they try to carry out a task for which the Active X component is required. However, the user will not be given a notice to install the component. They will be presented with a notice to run the component: This website wants to run the following add-on: <Component Name>...from EMC Corporation. If you trust the website and the add-on and want to allow it to run click here WebXtender has been able to detect the presence of the component on the PC but also detects that it has not been completely installed. A user does not have to be the administrator of their PC to run these components. Running the component completes the installation and makes the component permanent on the PC. 9
Checking Installed Components There are two ways to check if a user has the Active X components installed on their PC: 1. Have the user check in C:\Windows\Downloaded Program Files on their PC. They should find a list of.ocx,.dll and.inf files similar to this: 2. Have the user check in C:\Program Files (x86)\common Files\XtenderSolutions on their PC. They should have a list of folders similar to this: 3. Have the user look in the Check Installed Components tool in WebXtender. From the Application List view the user will click HELP -> Check Installed Components. The following window will appear: 10
The bottom pane of this window will indicate if any of the four components listed have been installed. Notes: o o o The user may have to click into the bottom pane to activate it The bottom pane requires an Active X component so the user may be prompted to install or run the component This tool does not list all the components that WebXtender uses or that we have pushed to CUNET user PCs Browser Configuration To improve the user experience and full functionality of WebXtender there are several browser configurations that are required. The CCS Windows Group has included these configurations in the CUNET Domain Group Policy Object to ensure that they are delivered to all user PCs without manual intervention. Like the Active X component package, this group policy object gets delivered to user PCs periodically to update them and keep them current with the policy. The group policy object will set the following two sites as Local Intranet Sites within the Internet Options of Internet Explorer: https://bandoc04.carleton.ca https://docman.carleton.ca 11
In the event that these get removed and need to be set manually these steps will allow the user to do so: a. Click Tools -> Internet Options b. Click on the SECURITY tab c. Click on LOCAL INTRANET SITES d. Click on the SITES button e. Click on the ADVANCED button f. In the Add this website to the zone field enter each of the following one at a time and click the Add button after each entry: https://bandoc04.carleton.ca https://docman.carleton.ca g. Click the Close button on the Local Intranet sites window h. Click the OK button next to the Advanced button i. Click the OK button on the Internet Options window j. Close and reopen Internet Explorer to have these settings take effect Notes: - This is a step to be checked or carried out if the user reports problems accessing the WebXtender application or features within WebXtender It has been noted that Safari has pop-up blocker turned on by default. WebXtender presents some of its features and functionality through pop-ups. Therefore, Safari browsers need to have the pop-up blocker turned off. Adobe Reader Configuration Although not mandatory for WebXtender use, Adobe Reader is part of the CUNET image users have on their PC. WebXtender has the ability to render PDF documents by making use of the Adobe PDF Component. However, when that component is not present or the user is using WebXtender or viewing documents through a browser other than IE, Adobe Reader can be used to handle the rendering. These steps will help make Adobe Reader more efficient in integrating within WebXtender for PDF viewing: If using Adobe Reader 9 or Adobe Reader X, ensure that the following steps are completed: a. Open Adobe Reader and go to EDIT -> PREFERENCES b. On the Preferences window select INTERNET from the left margin option list c. In the Internet settings pane (right side) check the box labelled Display PDF in Browser 12
d. Close Adobe Reader In Adobe Reader XI this setting has been removed. The configuration of Adobe Reader XI has PDFs displaying in the browser by default. However, there may be a need to ensure that the browser has the Adobe Reader plugin enabled: a. Open Adobe Reader XI and go to EDIT -> PREFERENCES b. On the Preferences window select INTERNET from the left margin option list c. In the Internet settings pane click on the link How to set up your browser to use Adobe products to view PDF documents d. On the webpage that opens follow the instructions for the browser being used e. Close Adobe Reader XI 32-bit vs. 64-bit Internet Explorer There are recognized issues with using WebXtender in the 64-bit version of Internet Explorer. WebXtender features become disabled WebXtender feature malfunction Scanners do not get recognized by the Interactive Viewer To avoid any possible issues and confusion (WebXtender does not inform you why things are not working) users should use the 32-bit version of Internet Explorer only. This is only an issue for users on Windows 7. Windows XP is a 32-bit operating system and only supports versions of Internet Explorer that are 32-bit. Windows 7 is a 64-bit operating system and comes with an installation of Internet Explorer 64-bit as its default. Fortunately, Windows 7 also comes with a 32-bit installation of Internet Explorer but the user will need to locate it and replace the icon or desktop shortcut for the 64-bit version with it. Here is how you test to see what version your desktop short cut or taskbar icon points to. Right click on the desktop shortcut and choose Properties Note if you are right clicking on the taskbar icon you will need to right click a second time after choosing IE from the popup you are presented with on the first right click In the Properties window select the Shortcut tab On the shortcut tab locate the field labelled Target If the target field contains "C:\Program Files (x86)\internet Explorer\iexplore.exe" then this shortcut is for the 32-bit version and can be retained for use 13
If the target field contains "C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe" then this shortcut is for the 64-bit version and needs to be replaced Note on your Windows 7 Start menu in All Programs you will see Internet Explorer listed. You can check what version it is pointing in the same manner as above. In some cases you may see two Internet Explorer entries in All Programs and one of them will be flagged as 64- bit If your desktop shortcut and/or taskbar icon are pointing to the 32-bit IE version then you are OK and can start using WebXtender. If they are pointing to the 64-bit version then you will need to replace them. Delete the desktop shortcut for the 64-bit IE version and right click on the taskbar icon and select Unpin this program from taskbar. If after unpinning it, Windows has moved it to the desktop as a shortcut, delete it. Open Windows Explorer or My Computer Navigate to the C:\ drive and locate Program Files (x86). Open Program Files (x86) Locate the folder Internet Explorer and open it Inside this folder look for a file named iexplore.exe Right click on this file and choose Create Shortcut. Windows will notify you that you cannot create a shortcut in this folder and will ask if you want to place the shortcut on the desktop. Answer YES. If you prefer to have your shortcuts on the taskbar as icons then right click on the shortcut on your desktop and select Pin to Taskbar Summary Internet Explorer 8.x is the Carleton supported browser and users should use it if at all possible. Internet Explorer, in interactive client mode, provides the fullest functionality for BDM and WebXtender usage. Internet Explorer 7.x or 9.x may be sufficient as well. Non-IE browsers will not deliver the same depth of functionality or user experience as Internet Explorer. Non-IE browsers are not able to take advantage of interactive client mode and will default the user to thin client mode. Ensure that work stations have had the WebXtender Active X Plugin package deployed to them. If your check for installed components indicates they have not been deployed then ask the designated BDM Functional Specialist in your area to submit a request to the CCS Service Desk asking for the package to be deployed to the work stations in question, by computer name. 14
Ensure users have been added to the appropriate BDM user class that will allow them to carry out WebXtender tasks they are required to carry out. If a user need to scan, import and index documents they not only need the Active X components that will enabled WebXtender to allow those features to work but they also need to be in a user group that will allow them to carry out those tasks. Ensure that users are using WebXtender in the 32-bit version of Internet Explorer 15
Scanning Settings & Suggested Standards Setting the scanned image format and the DPI properly have an impact on the clarity and legibility of scanned documents as well as the size of the scanned image. Both are important. The vast majority of paper documents being digitized and indexed into BDM will be clear enough to be easily legible if scanned in black and white but there are cases where color documents and documents with exceptional detail and characteristics will require color or gray scale scanning to achieve the desired clarity. When a user is scanning documents in WebXtender the properties of the attached scanner are made available to WebXtender through the scanner s drivers. (Note - the BDM and WebXtender vendors specifically request the use of ISIS drivers for scanning in WebXtender). The user will be able to open the scanner properties and set the image format and DPI, as well as other settings, directly within WebXtender (see sample screen shots below). It is important to note, the scanner settings the user will see in WebXtender are based on the scanner, not WebXtender. There can be slight differences in property names and options from scanner to scanner. Click the highlighted button in the scan toolbar to open the scanner properties. The scan toolbar is available and enabled to only those users with the privilege to scan in BDM. 16
Common Scanner Settings: The following are some of the more common settings that can be used to improve clarity and scanning efficiency. The setting name may vary slightly from scanner to scanner. Image Type this is the setting that indicates whether the scan will be in black & white, color or some variation thereof. Image size is greatly impacted by this setting and tests indicate that black & white will create the smallest file sizes while true color creates some of the largest sizes. Resolution this setting allows you to select the DPI or dots per inch that the scan will use when generating the image. The higher the DPI typically the higher clarity and detail in the scanned image. However, the higher the DPI will result in larger image sizes. 17
Image Rotation/Orientation this setting when turned on will ensure that pages in the scan will be rotated to be properly oriented in an upright position. If you have one page upside down this setting will rotate it when scanning. Cropping this setting crops the image size automatically to paper size Deskew this setting will make sure that documents already in the upright position are straightened and aligned. Sometimes a document will go through the scanner slightly unaligned or skewed. With this setting the scanner will align the image when scanning the document. Blank Page Removal this setting instructs the scanner to ignore all blank pages in a batch of documents. Noise Removal this setting will set the scanner to remove and clean up extra dots, or noise, that impact the clarity of the document. Suggested Scanning Standards: Based on user experience, scanning tests and input from the vendor and other BDM schools the following scanning standards are suggested for use at Carleton University for scanning documents into BDM. Default Standard Image Type Black & White Resolution 300 DPI Colored Documents (if required) Image Type 24-bit Color Resolution 250 DPI It is recommended to avoid using color scanning whenever possible. If resolution and clarity can be achieved in black & white then that should be the choice for scanning. These standards are suggestions based on best practice but users must realize that the documents will ultimately determine if this standard needs to be adjusted in your functional areas. Documents come in various depths of color, detail, shading and clarity. Some documents you scan may not produce the image you require under this standard. In these cases functional units must determine what adjustments to make and how to manage those adjustments. 18
Communication & Reporting BDM Issues The individual Business Units are the owners and primary points of contact for all enquires and issues related to BDM for their designated user community. All reporting from the BDM user community should be made to the BDM Functional Specialist(s) in the specific Business Unit. The communication of information related to the use of BDM and all user training for BDM is the responsibility of the Business Unit to coordinate and manage. CCS is available to assist in BDM training. Communication between Business Units and CCS for troubleshooting and problem resolution should be done through the BDM Functional Specialist and the CCS BDM Administrator. The current process of submitting SCRs for problem resolution and fixes will be followed for BDM. These SCRs should be submitted by the Functional Specialist after careful review of the issue with the user(s). The SCR should be submitted as unassigned and the Manager of Application Development will move it along to the appropriate resource in CCS. 19
Appendix A Below are the instructions for determining the computer name of a user s PC in Windows 7. 1. Click on the Windows Start button to open the start menu. 2. From the Start menu select Control Panel 3. On the Control Panel select System and Security 4. From the System and Security screen select System 5. On the System screen locate the Computer Name listed under the Computer Name, domain and workgroup settings section Note in Step 2 you may see an expanded menu open when you mouse over or click on Control Panel. If so then you can select System from that menu and jump right into step 5 20
Appendix B Groups & Classes for Faculty CI Contracts User Group Name FACULTY-CI-ADMIN Banner Class Name CUBDMSGRP_FACULTY-CI-ADMIN Groups & Classes for FGPA User Group Name FGPA-ADMIN FGPA-CLERK FGPA-DEPT-ARCH FGPA-DEPT-ARTC FGPA-DEPT-BIOL FGPA-DEPT-BUSI FGPA-DEPT-CANS FGPA-DEPT-CHEM FGPA-DEPT-CIVE FGPA-DEPT-CLS FGPA-DEPT-COGS FGPA-DEPT-COMM FGPA-DEPT-COMP FGPA-DEPT-ECON FGPA-DEPT-ELEC FGPA-DEPT-ENGL FGPA-DEPT-EURR FGPA-DEPT-FREN FGPA-DEPT-GEOG FGPA-DEPT-GEOL FGPA-DEPT-HCI FGPA-DEPT-HIST FGPA-DEPT-HSTP FGPA-DEPT-HUMM FGPA-DEPT-INAF FGPA-DEPT-IND FGPA-DEPT-IPIS FGPA-DEPT-JOUR Banner Class Name CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-ADMIN CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-CLERK CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-ARCH CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-ARTC CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-BIOL CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-BUSI CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-CANS CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-CHEM CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-CIVE CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-CLS CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-COGS CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-COMM CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-COMP CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-ECON CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-ELEC CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-ENGL CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-EURR CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-FREN CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-GEOG CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-GEOL CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-HCI CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-HIST CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-HSTP CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-HUMM CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-INAF CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-IND CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-IPIS CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-JOUR 21
FGPA-DEPT-KROE FGPA-DEPT-LALS FGPA-DEPT-LAWS FGPA-DEPT-MAAE FGPA-DEPT-MATH FGPA-DEPT-NEUR FGPA-DEPT-PADM FGPA-DEPT-PECO FGPA-DEPT-PHIL FGPA-DEPT-PHYS FGPA-DEPT-PSCI FGPA-DEPT-PSYC FGPA-DEPT-SERG FGPA-DEPT-SOAN FGPA-DEPT-SOWK FGPA-DEPT-SYST FGPA-DEPT-WOMN CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-KROE CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-LALS CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-LAWS CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-MAAE CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-MATH CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-NEUR CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-PADM CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-PECO CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-PHIL CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-PHYS CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-PSCI CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-PSYC CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-SERG CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-SOAN CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-SOWK CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-SYST CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-WOMN 22
Appendix C This is a sample of the information required when submitting a request to have a user added to BDM. Banner ID: 100111222 Full Name: William Wonka Banner Username: WILLYWONKA Banner Class: CUBDMSGRP_FGPA-DEPT-XXXX Notes: When submitting this information the format is not as important as ensuring that it is all included There may be other pieces of information that the CSS Help Desk require in the submission process but these are the key items for BDM access requests If this user does not have Banner access then that should be addressed first 23