HUMAN RESOURCE PAYROLL MANAGEMENT SYSTEM CHOONG PEI SUN This report is submitted in partial fulfillment of the requirements for the Bachelor of Computer Science (Software Development) FACULTY INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY KOLEJ UNIVERSITI TEKNIKAL KEBANGSAAN MALAYSIA 2006
ABSTRACT This report is.an attempt to generalize and analyze the project with title Human Resource Payroll Management System (HRPMS) for EPS Softec System Sendirian Berhad. Overall, I have developed the system that integrates web pages, controls, data access, validation, encryption and security. There are five modules that in the HRPMS, which was Login, Registration, Time Management, Payroll Management and Leave Management by using ASP Scripting. Besides, the system has also using Java Script, connection string, MySQL database, SQL command and so forth. The documentation of the program has been upgraded. I cannot guarantee that the propose system is the best product in the current market that currently growing up because the technology always be changed from time to time. But the propose HRPMS would be help the organization in their management of the payroll transaction. It can save their time to reduce the paperwork. In a nutshell, during the development of HRPMS, I can continued to grow in knowledge, excel in technology application, interact and share with my supervisor and manager of company develop the world class solution and real world challenges, develop the skill being learned in university to the benefit I get from it.
ABSTRACT Tesis ini bertujuan untuk manbuat analysis dan membangunkan projek yang bertajuk Human Resource Payroll Management System untuk EPS Sofiec System Sendirian Berhad. Secara keseluruhannya, saya membangunakan system in dengan menggunakan laman web, mengesahan data dari segi security. System ini dibangunkan dengan menggunakan Java Script, ASP dan MySQL dalam mengendalikan pangkalan data. Dengan kemajuan teknologi yang berkemgankan dari semasa ke semasa, kami tidak dapat memastikan bahawa system ini ialah yang terbaik. Tetapi, diharapkan system ini dapat membantukan syarikat dalm mengendalikan data dalam organisationnya. System ini dapat menjimatkan masa dalam penguruskan sysrikat. Di samping itu, saya dapat meningkatkan rahap pengetahuan saya ke tahap yang lebih tinggi dan menghadapi cabaran pada'masa hadapan.
CHAPTER I INTRODUCTION 1.1 PROJECT BACKGROUND The proposed system that will be built is Human Resource Payroll Management System (HRPMS) for EPS Sofiec System Sendirian Berhad. The EPS Sofiec System Sendirian Berhad will use this system to replace the current manual system. The company's admin and employees will be the end user of this system. The company has maintained a very limited computerized module.of the payroll processing application. The majority of the work is manual and maintained on numerous spreadsheets. The informational database is not integrated with the Human Resources Department, therefore all personnel data must be re-keyed by each department. Both departments have limited staff personnel and during heavy processing periods such as quarterly and yearly reporting and semester adjunct hiring's, the activities can become burdensome. The current payroll processes are extensively manual intensive. This replacement is dues to problems that arise when using the current system. The current system consumes a lot of time in order to keep track of all records in some processes such as registration of a new employees, calculation of salary, keep tract on employee's schedule and etc.
The payroll administrator's jobs will be easier and more efficient once the proposed Human Resource Management System has been replaced the current system. This is the computerized system, which will improve and enhance the services provided by the company's admin to staffs. The paperless system stores all the records in database. This will improve data integrity and easier to save, retrieve and manage those records. End users can retrieve the information such as employee status or the citizenship details with easily from the database in the new system and save a lot of time. Besides that, Human Resource Payroll Management System can handle and manage complex calculations that would otherwise be prone to errors. For example, the complex calculation may take the input, rate or basic salary from the employee detail or transaction entry. i'herefore, the formula rate that use in the system will simplify the complex calculation because it is system generated. User just have to key in the required field in the form, then employee's pay, allowance advanced, deduction and others will be generated. The proposed Human Resource Payroll Management System has many benefits especially in improving efficiency of company's services and more systematic as well as more reliable compare to current manual system. 1.2 PROBLEM STATEMENT EPS Sofiec System Sendirian Berhad is specialized in computer software, hardware and services. The company currently does not using the computerized system in the management of the employees. The current system does not keep track the employee attendance, overtime hours, leave apply and so on. Since, the company's business are growing up and planning to have branch at other area, the online based system is needed to manage the employee's problem. It can solve the problem as the number of employees is increased. The problem statements are list as below:
The current system needs the human involved in most of steps of registration process flow. For example, the new employee's information will be filling in into an employment form and the form will be keep into a file. This will generate a higher risk compare to the computerized system. The data may be lost if any accident are happened. Therefore, the clerk have to re-entered the data and it may be happened the duplication of data. Most of the process are done manually which included the checking the existing employee, calculate the working hours of the employee and generate a pay-slip to the employee. The clerk will check the formula rate of the employee whether he is monthly pay or daily pay because the formula for the calculation of the allowance code such as Basic, Overtime, Advance, Deduction and so on is different between both of them. Then, the clerk will use the required formula of allowance code to calculate the salary. After the salaries are calculated out, the amount of salary will fill the pay-slip form which are already prepare for the employee. The current system is using the punch card system to manage the working hours of employee. All employee have to punch the time he is in or out from the company. The current system arrange the shift time of the employee by manually. The sup'ervisor for each department will arrange the employee under his construction and arrange the shift time for them. Most of the shift time are decided by the management The employee has to filling in a leave form before he is applied the leave and get the approver from the manager. If the leave is approved, then the leave form is keep into a file. At the end of the month, when the payroll clerk to calculate the monthly salary, she has to check whether the employee has applied the leave or not. The type of leave will be affecting the salary such as annual leave, sick leave, and unpaid leave and so on. If the employee is a permanent staff, then the leave
balances have to change every time depends on the leave type that the employee apply. The system does not generate report for the company at the end of the month or yearly. It is time consuming to generate report by using the manual system because the payroll clerk has to collect all the data form the large amount of employees. The system were not categories the citizenship between the local worker and the foreign worker. The foreign worker who were under contract may be faced the problem by the due date of the employment contract. 1.2 OBJECTIVES The objectives of the development of the HRPMS are: The purpose of this application is to maintain time and attendance data calculate the payroll to manage the employee in the EPS Softec System Sendirian Berhad. This system minimizes the clerical work required to produce the payroll. The system can produce report such as pay slips, annual income statement, employee resign report and so on. Time and attendance data for all the employees are manage systematically. The system able to minimize data entry and calculation the staffs pay, allowance, advance, deduction and others based on the formula rate. This can improve data integrity and easier to save, retrieve and manage those records. End users can retrieve the information such as employee status or the citizenship details with easily from the database in the new system and save a lot of time.
1.4 SCOPES The Human Resource Management System is a system that manages to handle with many functions by using computer. The modules that run by the Human Resource Management System is registration, payroll processing, time and attendance management and leave management, generate report based on the requirement of the company. The end user in the Human Resource Payroll Management System is the manager and the.payroll clerk. The clerk will handle the payroll processing, time and attendance and calculation of leave balances functions. Only the authorized clerk can login to access those functions. The login process is a means of security for the entire system. The Human Resource Payroll Management System to be developed can divide to four main modules which are registration, payroll, and time management and leave management. The HRPMS is suitable for most of the industrial organizations which need an effectively human resource management system. a) In the module Registration The registration module can manage the employee data file. First of all, the user (payroll clerk) will key in the employees information into the payroll system. All the information fields are group into the systematic part such as Particular Detail, Spouse Information, Employment Detail, Previous Employment, Government Detail, Salary Detail and Family Information. Then, the administrator will arrange the salary structure to the employee according the formula rate, join date, and confirm date and salary for the employee. In the form of Employee Profile, we used the validation function to control the invalid insertion for some of the field such as Master Code, formula rate and so on. Only
the code that key in through Master Code can be used as the input for employee. For Example, if the user key in the formula rate wrongly, the system will empty the fields until user insert the correct insertion. The formula rate such as Monthly or Daily is required. In the forms that contain the date's field, the validation function to control the invalid insertion are included. In most of the form, there may contain the date that required user to key in the date. In order to make sure that the date is correct in used; we pop out the error message to user. For example, if the user key in the date wrongly, the system will prompt an.error message to inform the correct format of the date. b) In the module Payroll Management In the payroll module, the transaction entry option is to control the processing of salaries. It is use for the monthly maintenance of all allowance code and deduction for each employee. For first time usage of this option, user has to remember to key in the necessary allowances code. Employee detail must be keyed-in in employee detail or else employee's name does not appear. The transaction entry is just can be used by the existing employee. That mean the employee already is one of the staff in the company. Then the employee can calculate the salaries or continued with the payroll processing. The validation of the existing employee will be one of the functions in the transaction entry. The important function the proposed system is the process of the transaction for the record for each of the exiting employee. The record is process as user click on the "Process" button. The purpose to process the record is to calculate the salary for the employee. The record for each of the transaction can be referring through the historical data database. It is useful as when there have a large amount of employee have the record and process in the same time. User can review all the record for the entire employee at the same time at the end of the month.
The Historical Data is to view previous transaction based on selected employee ID. This table is for Read-Only purpose. No modification is allowed in this table. In order too modify an entry, user have to go to Transaction Entry for modification. Beside of that, the system will be able to generate report for the company. Payroll System Reports such as Pay slip, Employee Report (Resign, Confirm or Joining) and Annual Income Statement have to print out after the payroll processing is completed. The pay slip has shown all the allowance code that has been process. c) In the module Leave Management The leave management module can let the user define leave code and leave code setup. This form is use to save the leave code's information and criteria that define by user themselves. The related information that may key in are Leave Code, Leave Description, Leave Entitlement, Rounding Code, From, To, Input. Some of the examples of the Leave Code are Annual Leave, Medical L,eave, and Unpaid Leave and so on. Beside of that, the system can let the user define leave day rounding table for the company itself. The table is used to save the value that will be used to round the value of entitlement. The leave entitlement is calculated out depends on the month that the employee joined in the company. Then the numbers of month are retrieved to calculate the actual leave day that can be taken by the employee. Before the value of the leave day is display, it must be rounded become an integer value. The system provides a flexible leave application for the employees. The leave form will be fill in and submit to the clerk. Then the clerk will key in the required information into Update Leave Transaction. In this form, the leave entitlement of the employee is calculated and balances of the leave day are display in the form. The number of the leave day that taken will be calculated by the program and display in the
text box. So the balance of the leave day is calculated after the forms is submitted and save into database. So the latest leave balance will be shown in the leave form for the future used. d) In the Time Management Module For the time management module, user can define shift code that will use in the company. This is a table that will enable user to key in shifi code and its details to be used in Shift Assignment. The information in the form such as below: Shift Code - name of shift in form of code Description - description of code Work in - time start for specific code Work out - time end for specific code Minimum OT - requirement time in order to claim OT Generate Transaction Entry This table is allowing user to key in employee transaction manually. User can also do correction on previous transaction. In order to accumulate data for all transaction, user must undergo the process step in order to print the correct report. 1.5 PROJECT SIGNIFICANT Human Resource Payroll Management System (HRPMS) can handle and manage complex calculations that would otherwise be prone to errors. For example, the complex calculation may take the input, rate or basic salary from the employee detail or transaction entry. So the formula rate that use in the system will simplify the complex calculation because it is system generated. User just have to key in the required field in
the form, then employee's pay, allowance advanced, deduction and others will be generated. With the HRPMS, the user would not feel unsatisfied because all the functions' response time is very fast. There is no more time consuming for the payroll process and transactions.as example, a searching function will give the results to the user within a minute where all the related information will be displayed automatically and systematically. The system can handle. the management with more systematically. Therefore, it is save times in all the process comparing to the manual system. They let you specify your new systems requirements faster than traditional methods. The development of the propose system able to meet the user requirement and specification with the improvement in the future. 1.6 EXPECTED RESULT Typically, HRPMS technology replaces the core Human Resource activities by streamlining them electronically. The activities are payroll processing, time and attendance management, leave management and administration of the company. While using the internet or corporate intranet as a communication, the HRPMS technology can convert these into web-based HRPMS components and permit to reduce transaction costs, leading to greater human resoui-ce and organizational efficiency. Through HRPMS, human resource activities shift away from paper based processes to using self-service functionalities that benefit employees and manager. Costly and time consuming administrative tasks are being individually handled and permit to reduce transaction time, leading the organizational management effectiveness.
1.7 CONCLUSION The proposed system, Human Resource Payroll Management System is the state of the art human resource management software that can be easily and securely accessed through any web browser anywhere in the world. This intranet accessibility allows companies to deploy.their payroll management solution across multiple remote locations because it is developed into web-based software. This payroll processing software will improve the company's payroll process, saving time and money, and provided services with real-time access to accurate and up-to-date information. By using the proposed system, most problems in the current system can be solved effectively. The online portal will be developed by using HTML, JavaScript and server-side scripting (ASP). So the end user can access this system concurrently. All the information that needed will be stored in database by using MySQL, which is a relational database management system (DBMS) software. The end product of proposed system will be delivered in a very user-friendly way. The system will contain certain important features such as learn ability, usability and interactive interface. All,these features can ensure the end users to navigate the system easily and effectively.
CHAPTER I1 LITERATURE REVIEW AND PROJECT METHOD 2.1 INTRODUCTION The propose system is Human Resource Management System for EPS Softec System Sendirian Berhad. According to the Gary Dessler (1942). "A Framework for Human ResourceIGary Dessler." 2"d ED. Upper Saddle River, New Jersey 07458: Melissa Steffens. 1-22. Human resource management is refers to the practices and policies you need. to carry out the personnel aspects of management job, specifically acquiring training, appraising, rewarding and providing a safe and fair environment for your company's employees. These practice and policies include for instances, conducting job analysis, planning labor needs and recruiting job candidates, selecting job candidates, orienting and training new employees, managing wages and salaries, providing incentives, appraising performance, communication, training and developing and building employee commitment. The human resource of an organization can be considered the most significant input organization utilities. It is through human resource that all others resources are acquired and used. Decisions about human resources tend to directly affect the quality
of all other resources. I have to do the literature review and research to completed my project. Software development is recognized as being a time consuming and conceptually difficult endeavor. The most difficult part may be in understanding what the system is to do and how it will be done. There are many different techniques to help the developer understand the,problem and to aid in the development of the software requirement document. There are so many project methodology that can be use to complete the project or system. For my web-based system, I decide to use the Rational Unified Process (RUP) Methodology for the project. 2.2 FACTS AND FINDING 2.2.1 ~omain Background EPS ~oftec System Sendirian Berhad is specialized in computer software, hardware and services. The company currently does not using the computerized system in the management of the employees. The current system does not keep track the employee attendance, overtime hours, leave apply and so on. Since, the company's business are growing up and planning to have branch at other area, the online based system is needed to manage the employee's problem. It can solve the problem as the numbers of employees are increased.
2.2.2 Research and Finding Human Resource management belongs to all organizations. Its focus point is people; people are the life blood of organizations. Without them, there is no point for computer system, compensation plans, mission statements, programs, or procedures. Because human resource management activities involved people, the activities must be finely turned and properly implemented to achieve desire outcomes. The uniqueness of human resource management lies in its emphasis on people in work settings and its concern for well being and comfort of the human resources in an organization. They are focus on managers and leaders with the responsibility to optimized performance and do what is ethically correct. Human resource management specialists who advise, support, and aid manager and non-managers in their work and employees such as engineers, clerks, typists, machinists, chemists, teachers, nurse and so on who perform the work.[l] Just a few years ago, computer technology offered a revolutionary change in human resource management. Organizations experimented with computerized skills inventories, pay and benefits administration and applicant tracking system. Today, the revolution continues but is undergoing fundamental changes as computer technology and The Internet grow at precedent rates. Human Resource Management is moving away from a mainframe technology to the world of virtual reality, with the Internet at its once. Although many forces drive the change, one the most important is the globalization of business. As organization spread their operations and personnel worldwide, the need for the truly global, integrated human resource management system has reached critical levels. The obvious answer is virtual human resource management on the World Wide Web. [2] The common uses of the Internet in human resource management planning are in corporate communications, applicant and resume tracking, and benefit and retirement planning. In the area of recruiting, Human Inc. has created one of the most advanced applicant identification and tracking system in the world. Humana is an HMO with approximately 20000 employees and 6 million subscribers. Their human resource
recruiters and rapidly identify, contact and track qualified applications for virtually and job opening in their organization. Their success involved around a specialized software application, Softshoe Select, provided by a linked to Hotjobs.com. This software automatically searched millions of individual Web pages looking for resumes that meet the need that Humana may have. [3] The Internet.. is also helping revolutionize a number of other human resource planning activities for many organizations. Citibank, for example, has a single global HRIS that maintains a detailed skills inventory, compensation database, and HR practices for 98 countries and 10,000 managerial personnel world wide. Numerous other global employees have created employee self-service compensation and benefits system that allow employees. from around the globe to manage many of their own HR activities. For example, employees at Shell Oil Company manage their retirement plans, maintain or change health are coverage, and track other personally relevant information all through an automated, self service system. [4] Use of Internet in this kind of human resource planning activities is not, however without danger. The ease of access to much information always has the potential to create by the legal and ethical abuse, both by employees and by external "hackers", or authorized users of the system. Organization must take all necessary precautions to safeguard the privacy and integrity of these virtual human resource systems. The challenges are immense, but the organizations consequences can be invaluable. Payroll Software is a powerful stand-alone system designed for ease of use and comprehensive employee pay processing and reporting. It features flexible time entry, leave calculations, earnings/deductions templates, benefit tracking, payroll and liability check printing, with Daily, Weekly, Monthly and Reminder. Payroll is designed as a long-term solution to your changing business needs. It is suitable for anything from one to many thousands of active employees and adapts easily to fluctuations in staffing levels. With optional networking, up to twenty users and if required more can view and update your payroll system simultaneously. It would be web-based or online payroll as your requirement.
The most important feature of the business Payroll software is that with this fingertips process software, you save lots of time, which ultimately helps you in bringing more collectible business, which in these years you have been neglecting, because of short time span. Now you can divert your attention in bringing more business, rather than consuming time in the day-to-day work. All the tools in this accounting software are controlled by the tools provided to access the computer software as per required. Whether you deal in wholesale or retail business this software is the actual process you need. Table 2.1 : List Tables of Research on Human Resource Management Online Apta Software URL c" b 4 Apta Software Overview Description http://www. apta. corn. my AptaFund Payroll brings ease and flexibility to the business of managing and processing your payroll. The system supports all teacher pay plans, state- specific retirement deductions, direct deposit and electronic payroll reporting. With features like online pay distribution and adjustment, Preview Net Pay, and real time interface with the General Ledger, AptaFund provides the versatility required by payroll professionals and school business office managers. Benefit Ease of use, flexibility and save time
Seasia Consulting X v-,f! -.: y F - I L - z 5 m - w p lg2 :*L-we- *-&&.-,G,'* a.;..,;~,:"+.&z:",~*~ URL Overview Benefit,, s Description http://www.seasia. corn. my The Payroll Management Software of Seasia Consulting deals with the financial aspects of employee's salary, allowances, deductions, gross pay, net pay etc. and generation of pay-slips for a specific period. The outstanding benefit of Payroll Management Software is its easy implementation. Online help and documentation is only a click away. Other advantages of Payroll Management Software are its extensive features and reports. InstaPay Description URL Overview http://www. instapay. corn. my InstaPay is a full feature payroll system with capabilities that greatly exceed the features and capabilities that are available in other payroll systems. The system's multiple location payroll processing features can handle the needs of any
business, from producing all payroll checks in real-time, to asking "what if' questions. InstaPay is easily interfaced to all of the other software applications your company uses, to ensure that your company achieves the maximum possible benefit from the system. Benefit Features Efficiency on multiple processing, easy to integrate with other application. -Employee Master File Features: -Insurance Administrator Benefits -Enrollment -Payroll Deductions -History Data -Check Historical -Payment History -Payroll Data Inputs -Tax Simulation -Payroll Processing GHG Software GHG ehms ekdmnic Human Resource ~anagement ~olution URL Overview Description http://www.ghg. corn GHG Corporation's ehrms is a Human Resource Information System (HRIS) that will have a positive impact on your profitability by automating all of your critical HR functions. Vital personnel data
including, compensation, benefits, contractfwork histories, performance reviews, training documentation, certifications, and security clearance statuses are stored in a central database and available to HR, managers, and employees via the Internet. Access to employee information coupled with ehrms's substantial ad hoc reporting capabilities, enables immediate responses to government, management, and employee requests for information and reports. -Complete, accurate, and easily accessible employee data frees your time to focus on core HR issues -Intuitive and easy-to-use search functions facilitate rapid report generation -Benefit management is greatly simplified -Quick payback for your investment in -Industry standard architecture for seamless integration :HRMS automates tracking and reporting In all HR-related tasks, including: -New hire processing -Job assignment.employee status.benefits enrollment and administration.fmla facilitation.emergency contacts
-Employee history -Performance/salary reviews -Compensation planning -Terminations -Department of Labor surveys -Visa status tracking Sure Payroll Software Description URL Overview http://www. surepayroll. corn As the country's leading online payroll company, Sure Payroll takes the hassles out of payroll processing for small businesses. Count on: -Calculate your wages and deductions -Calculate and pay your taxes -Keep track of employee benefits -Keep online payroll records -Pay your employees -Email your employees their pay stubs -Keep you clear of IRS penalties Benefit Sure Payroll is the simple, convenient and smart solution to your small business' payroll needs.
r Virtual Splat's Payroll Software Description URL Overview http://www. valliant. com. my Employee time and attendance tracking is the foundation of cost containment, service and profit improvement, but is notoriously difficult to measure. Valiant's automated time and attendance software enables you to track and manage employee services, hours, pay rates and locations so you can schedule responsively, and have the right employee at the right place at the right time with minimal overtime. Valiant's employee time and attendance software enables you to manage your customer commitment with your contract and government requirements. Valiant's Vision employee attendance software provides fast-to-implement solutions that eliminate the time and revenue-drain associated with tracking, paying, and managing your people. Gain more focused information about workforce's management and able to make Fast staffing decisions based on concrete, verifiable information.
Virtual Splat's Payroll Software Description http://www. valliant. com. my When Hospital Shared Services, a premier provider of support services to the healthcare industry, recognized the need to increase the efficiency of its employee time and attendance and scheduling processes, for a cost-effective solution. Before began using Valliant's employee time and attendance and scheduling solutions, they had to track employee qualifications manually for every position we needed to fill. Using Vision, they can ~utomatically select the right person and :heck his or her availability simply by iccessing a centralized, continuously lpdated database and automatically sorting 'or the proper criteria in real time. 3ain a new confidence level in the way we lo business. It can transform a manual, abor-intensive staffing process into a ieamless automated workforce nanagement system.
Table 2.2: Advantages of Web-Based Payroll System Criteria Cross-platform compatibility Advantages Web-based applications have a much easier path to successful cross-platform compatibility than downloadable software applications. Several technologies including Java, Flash, ASP and Ajax allow I I effective development of programs I supporting all of the major operating systems. Updating Web-based applications are always I I updated to the last release, without I requiring the user to take pro-active action, and without needing to prompt or interfere with user work habits in the hope that the) will be initiate new downloads and installation procedures (sometimes impossible when you are working inside a large organization). Immediacy of access Web-based applications need not to be downloaded, installed and configured. You access your account online and they are ready to work no matter what your setup or hardware is. Ease of tying Finally there will be no more obstacles to allow easy and effective try-outs of tools and applications before having to charge your credit card. Today, especially when
we talk about expensive software, there is still a great deal of functionalities and small details that cannot be fully tested and discovered before committing money to a full purchase. Less Memory Requirement Web-based applications have far more reasonable demands on end-user RAM memory than locally installed programs. By residing and running off provider servers, these web-based applications use in most cases the memory of the computers they run on, leaving more space for running multiple applications at the same time without incurring in frustrating performance hits. Less Bugs Web-based applications should be less prone to crashing and creating technical problems due to software or hardware conflicts with other existing applications, protocols or internal custom software. With web-based applications, everyone uses the same version, and all bugs can be fixed as soon as they are discovered. This is the reason why web-based applications should have far fewer bugs than traditional downloadable desktop software. Pricing Web-based applications do not require the jistribution, technical support and
marketing infrastructure required by traditional downloadable software. This allows online applications to cost a fraction of their downloadable counterparts if not being altogether free, while offering additional components and premium services at an option. Of course with the move from local applications to web-based ones also the data we create and access will need to undergo some profound changes. Nobody likes not to be able to access her own email when traveling, or to be able to retrieve a particular document when connecting from an Internet cafe 10,000 miles away from your office. I Multiple concurrent users Web-based applications can indeed be utilized by multiple users at the same time. No more need to screen share or send a screenshot when multiple users can see and even edit the same document together. Web conferencing and online collaboration companies are in for some key transformations and users need to explore what it really means to effectively work ~nd co-edit documents together. Data safer While hard disk crashes will not disappear, t is likely that users will hear a lot less