Focus Group of First Year & Potential Students in 2-year & 4-year Colleges

Transcription

1 Focus Group of First Year & Potential Students in 2-year & 4-year Colleges Baltimore, MD Thursday, February 12, pm SCREENER Hello. I m calling from. We would like to invite you to participate in a focus group. It will take place on Thursday, February 12, between 6-8pm. A light meal will be provided and you ll be paid $XXX at the end of the discussion. If you re available, I d like to ask you a few questions. Description of potential focus group participants: A) a person currently in their first year in a 2-year or 4-year college or program OR B) a person who is not currently enrolled but who is seriously considering attending a 2-year or 4-year college or program within the next year or so. Q1. SEX [ ] Female RECRUIT 4-6 [ ] Male RECRUIT 4-6 Q2. How old are you? [ ] Younger than 20 years TERMINATE [ ] years old Recruit 2-4 [ ] years old Recruit 2-4 [ ] years old Recruit 2-4 [ ] years old Recruit 2-4 [ ] More than 40 year TERMINATE Q3. What is the highest level of education you have completed? [ ] Some high school CONTINUE [ ] High school graduate CONTINUE [ ] Job-specific training or certificate program CONTINUE [ ] Some college, but no degree CONTINUE [ ] 2-year college degree (for example, associates degree) TERMINATE [ ] 4-year college degree (for example, bachelors degree) TERMINATE [ ] Graduate school or more TERMINATE 1

2 Q4. Are you currently enrolled or taking courses to earn a degree or for-credit certificate at a 2-year or 4-year college or program, or are you currently not in school? [ ] Enrolled/taking courses in 2-year college/program [CONTINUE GO TO Q5] [ ] Enrolled/taking courses in 4-year college/program [CONTINUE GO TO Q5] [ ] Currently not enrolled in school [CONTINUE GO TO Q6] [ ] Something else [ASK US] ASK IF Q4: Enrolled/taking courses in either 2-year or 4-year college or program: Q5. Are you a: [ ] First year student/freshman [RECRUIT 3-5] [ ] Second year student/sophomore [TERMINATE] [ ] Third year student/junior [TERMINATE] [ ] Fourth year student/senior [TERMINATE] [ ] Something else [ASK US] ASK IF Q4: Currently NOT enrolled/taking courses in school: RESPONDENT MUST SAY yes TO AT LEAST ONE ITEM IN Q6; MANY WILL SAY YES TO >1. RECRUIT 7-9 WHO SAY yes TO AT LEAST ONE ITEM AT LEAST 2 FROM EACH IF POSSIBLE. Q6. Over the past year or so have you: (Read each item) YES NO a. Seriously thought about enrolling in school, even if you haven t taken any steps to do so [ ] [ ] RECRUIT 2+ b. Checked out a website or brochure for one or more specific schools [ ] [ ] RECRUIT 2+ c. Contacted a school by phone or to speak with a counselor or to ask questions about the school [ ] [ ] RECRUIT 2+ d. Went in person to visit a school [ ] [ ] RECRUIT 2+ e. Applied to a 2-year, 4-year, or certificate program [ ] [ ] RECRUIT 2+ NONE OF THESE (a-e = no ) [ ] [ ] TERMINATE Q7. What is the name of the school(s) or program(s) you [Q5: currently attend] / [Q6a-e: seriously thought about, checked out website, contacted, visited, applied to] over the past year or so? [RECORD NAME(S)] RECORD FOR DEMOGRAPHIC PURPOSES, NO QUOTAS Q8. Which best describes you African American or black, Asian, Hispanic, White, or something else? (recruit a mix, no quotas) [ ] African American or black [ ] Asian [ ] Hispanic [ ] White [ ] Something else (specify) Q9. Do you currently work full time or part time, or are you a homemaker, or a full-time student, or are you unemployed at the moment? (recruit a mix, no quotas) [ ] Work full time [ ] Work part time [ ] Homemaker [ ] Full-time student [ ] Unemployed [RECRUIT 0-2, no more than 2] 2

3 [ ] Something else [Ask us] Q10. Which of these general categories best describes your household income in 2014? (recruit a mix, no quotas) [ ] Less than $25,000 [ ] $25,000 to $50,000 [ ] $50,000 to $75,000 [ ] More than $75,000 TRANSCRIPT Note: All names have been changed. Transcript has been edited for length and clarity. Participants Ariana: Female, 26 years old, currently unemployed, has young kids, gets financial aid, currently attends community college, African American, HH income $25-50K Patricia: Female, 40 years old, employed, has college-age daughter who is also attending the same community college, African American, HH income $50-75K Linda: Female, 26 years old, currently employed in 2 part-time jobs, recently applied to both community college and state university, African American, HH income less than $25K Mark: Male, 26 years old, currently employed in more than 1 job, has been looking around at schools but not yet accepted or enrolled, white, HH income $50-75K Randall: Male, 31 years old, employed full time in IT, has taken 1-2 placement exams but hasn t yet enrolled any where, white, HH income $50-75k Jenny: Female, 36 years old, currently unemployed, has attended college over the past 10 years but has not stuck with anything, white, HH income less than $25K Kenneth: Male, 25 years old, employed PT, had been at state university but left due to family issues, had received a football & academic scholarship but lost football scholarship after an injury, African American, HH income less than $25K Alex: Male, 18 years old, full time student at Towson, traditional college student, white, HH income $75K+ Jason: Male, 18 years old, full time student at University of Delaware, traditional college student, white, HH income $75K+ [Introduction not transcribed] Jenny: I m not working right now or enrolled in college. I have been going to [a local community college] for about 10 years. The reason I ve been going is that I don t really know what I want to do or what four-year school I want to transfer to. I know it s a long time to be sputtering around, but I don t know. Ann: Are you leaning towards anything? Jenny: I was thinking about marketing actually. I just have to get my GPA up a little bit. 3

4 Ann: You said you ve been on and off for a little while. A long little while? Jenny: A long little while, yeah. About 10 years. Ann: That s interesting. And are you from around here? Jenny: I m from Annapolis. Linda: I work part time at Amazon fulfillment and Lowes. And I recently applied to [a public four-year university], and I m looking into CNA GNA programs as well. Ann: And what does that stand for? Linda: Certified nursing assistant. Patricia: I also go to [a local community college], and I m pre-nursing. And I work full time. I m taking my last prerequisite. I work at a nonprofit organization. Also paying for a daughter to go to college who commutes. Ariana: Right now, I m unemployed. I m just Susie Homemaker. And I m attending a two-year college for business administration. It s [another local community college]. It s my second semester. It s nice. Kind of interesting--not really the work, just the people. Mark: I work two jobs, graduated high school. That s about it. Ann: Are you looking to go to college? Mark: I am. I just work a lot. I m a practice manager for a mental health office, and at night I teach martial arts. I m trying to get a degree in sports management to not so much run my own school, but run through community services to set up programs mainly for kids. I just need the money and time. Jason: I m at [a public four-year university] on the political science/public policy double major track, also with a concentration in law. Yeah, a second semester freshman. Towards the middle or end of high school, I knew I wanted to take the law route. And I knew with that, I d either go to law school or do public policy work for government or even nonprofit. Alex: I m a second semester freshman at [a public four-year university] in the major of mass communications with a focus on broadcast journalism. I knew since beginning of high school [that this is what I always wanted to do]. Randall: I work full time. I ve just been thinking about going back to school. I actually took an entry exam not too long ago for [a community college] for placement. I never followed through with anything because I ve been so busy. [I do] PC administration like basically IT. Kenneth: I work part time at Wal-Mart. I have one year s experience from schooling [a public four-year university]. I had family issues so I had to stop. I m looking to go back... When I was there, I was biology major. I wanted to be a dentist, but now I m also focusing on the allied health field, so that I can become a physical therapist. Ann: Pretty much everyone is in school or thinking about it. Could you tell me why you are even going to school after high school? What s driving you? What s your desire for getting an education? What s the main reason? Male: Work. 4

5 Female: Career. Ann: Work? Male: If you want to go any place else to make more money, they are going to want a degree, so Jenny: Also, money, and I just like to learn stuff. My mom never went to college so I thought it would be nice to do that. Linda: Income and career growth. Patricia: Following my dreams and passion. I realize with a desk job, I don t like it. Ariana: All the same reasons, right. Ann: Anyone else have any other reasons for why you would go to school? Kenneth: If I were to finish then I d be the first of my mother s children to actually finish college. Ann: To achieve? Participants: Personal goals. Ann: A sort of pride in your family. Jason: It wasn t a main focus for me. Obviously education and opportunity for jobs, but also the people you meet because you never know; you might be meeting the next Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. With today s market, it s really who you know, not what you know. Ann: Do you all agree with that? (Virtually everyone agreed) Ann: Ok, everyone gets one piece of paper and pencil or pen. I just want you to jot down one to three things that you care about most when you think about the best school or program for you and what you want to do. Linda: Graduation rate, tuition, and classes offered. Patricia: Tuition, online classes, and weekend option. Ariana: I picked location of the school, the tuition, and the class schedules (how versatile is the class schedule). Mark: Price and flexibility. Jason: Networking and the college experience--as in activities, things beyond just what you learn in classroom. Alex: In no order, it has to have the major or program that I m looking for, plenty of options for on campus activities, and it s affordable. Randall: Schedule; classes that can work around my work schedule; cost and affordability; and location proximity to either my work or home. 5

6 Kenneth: Cost of education, the programs that they offer, and also the chances of me getting a job after. Jenny: Connections and networking, reputation, and job placement after graduation. Ann: So, how many said something to do with cost or tuition? All, but two. Ok, and what were yours Jason? Jason: Networking and experience. Jenny: Networking, reputation, and job placement. Ann: Ok, great. So, almost everybody mentioned something about cost. And does that surprise anybody here? Participants: No. Ann: Ok, we are going to get back to that. Assume you got accepted into your dream school, that program that you wanted, but tuition was much higher than any of your other choices. What do you think you would do? The real question is do you think it would be worth it to go into debt to get exactly what you want or better to come out with a decent education with far less debt? Mark: I m sold. I d go with the cheaper option. Ann: Why? Mark: It depends on what I m going for. Some people they have on their resume they might get whatever degree it s a higher up type of thing, oh Yale, oh Harvard, they go ok. They look at the school more so, not the degree. For me, for what I m doing, I m not so much for the employer, because it s just to get the degree so I can do my thing. Ann: So, decent education, less debt. A lot of people were nodding their heads, which my audio can t pick up. [6/9 feel this way.] Who else said that? Randall, I think you did? Randall: Yeah because there s no guarantee that you re going to get a job after you graduate, and then you re going to be in debt, and you won t be able to pay it back, and your credit sucks. Alex: I guess what Randall was saying, how you might go to your dream school, and it might have everything that you re looking for, but what about after those four years? What about after? Is there a program set up where you can guarantee a job? Or are you going to be leaving your expensive school with just debt? Is that all you re going to be leaving with debt and a degree? Linda: I think it s more based on a person. I mean, no matter what school you go to, if you really want something, you might not get out the experience what you want to, but you do your own leg work. You send out your resume before you graduate maybe volunteer somewhere; get your foot in the door a little bit before you finish. (Inaudible) I feel like you get out of the program what you put into it. Ann: Who were the three who said Go into debt, get exactly what you want? Linda, Jenny, and Jason. Linda: Well, if it s your dream school you ll be more motivated to see the program through and push yourself more. My end game is nursing. I was just going to do a certification program to get a jump-start and then go back and do the long-term schooling. So, really whatever school I go to, if it s my dream school, and I m going to get all the learning exactly how I want it and exactly how I imagined it my end game is nursing, and I m going to be in that for a little while, but once I finish it will be easier for me to knock that debt off with the income that I am making. I 6

7 think it will be worth it in that long run. Jenny: Even if I have to go to school part time and work, I still would have picked my dream school. You can die with college debt. My sister has $25k in debt, and she ll probably die with that debt. That would be OK with me. I will just get a few less credit cards. Jason: I ve experienced both of these situations. I personally believe that education is the best return on your dollar. I think that if a school gives you everything you want and is going to set you up for a good future, then it is worth spending an extra buck, or extra few bucks. Ann: I m going to give you another forced choice, another scenario. Assume you got into that dream school again, and it s the exact school and program that you wanted, but the location is not quite right. It s far away, it s inconvenient money s not an issue. What would you pick? The decision you have to make is the best school and the inconvenience of where it is. What do you think you would do? Would it be worth the inconvenience and the sacrifices to go to your ideal school, or better to have more free time or be near your family? Mark? Mark: So, it s not referring to online at all? Ann: A campus school not an online option. When we jotted down three things, several of you said location. I know that Randall did. Who else? Ariana. So, I m just trying to give you a hypothetical. This one is its too far away, but it s the best school. Ariana: I m not going there. Ann: How many agree with Ariana? I m not going, it s too inconvenient. Ok, so five would say not going. Four would take the sacrifice. Let me talk to the sacrifice takers. Kenneth: I would go because nowadays we have so many different types of technology and communications. You still need to get your education. They are always going to be there. Jenny: I don t think it is that big a sacrifice for four years out of my life. If that was my dream school, you know, I could call, come home once a month. Linda: We have a lot more commuter options than we had back in the day. We have the [local] train, red line, greyhound, mega bus. It s not that bad. Alex: You grew up your entire life and follow your dreams your dream school, your dream program everything you need is right in front of you, and all it is is just family and the inconvenience. I mean, they can still come see you, you can see them, like you said the technology, there s plenty of different options. I am just saying if everything is in front of you on the table your entire school, all 12 years was all so you could go to a good college, get a good education, and your dream college is right there, all that work. That s 12 years vs. 4 years. Ariana: I have a family and they depend on me for everything. They act like they can t eat without me. I can t go to school and be away for long periods of time. Randall: Yeah, I was going to say if I was younger, it wouldn t be an issue. Once you enter the real world you have real world debt. You have mortgage, car notes. Ann: But if you were free of all of that, do you think you might have picked differently? Randall: If I didn t have any obligations, then yeah, I wouldn t mind. 7

8 Ann: How much of a consideration was cost when you were deciding whether to go to school at all? Not what school you were going to go to, but whether or not you were going to go to school beyond high school. How much did you have to think about it? Jenny: In the beginning, I didn t think about it. My parents had a little bit saved up for me, but that eventually got spent out. Now it s, the past few years, I ve had to rely on myself work full time, save up, maybe I ll get a scholarship or a grant. It is definitely more of a worry. Ann: So, when you were fresh out of high school, and you re parents had a little saved up for you, you didn t really think about it? Jenny: No. Ann: So, now that you re a grown up, cost is definitely a factor. Jenny: Yeah. Ann: Who else? Mark? Mark: I mean, mine is like 100%. Ann: So, no matter where you go, cost is 100%? Mark: Yeah, I d look at northwest community college or whatever is out there if it is cheap enough. I mean, cost is all I m looking at, and if they had school in the building. Jason: Cost is definitely a huge consideration, but I knew that for me education was a priority for my future. I knew the number, and it is pretty much how I picked. I narrowed schools down to the ones I wanted to go to. Ann: So, that s my next question. How did you narrow the schools? You re saying you were going to go regardless of the cost or cost might have made you not choose to go? Jason: Cost was a factor in the school I chose and I definitely narrowed down or took out schools off my list because of the cost. Kenneth: Cost was an issue. At first I had a full ride for football, and I got injured before my season ended, and I lost my scholarship, so I had to turn down a full ride to [a flagship public university] because I couldn t afford the cost of the scholarship, and [another public university] had offered me money, so I went [there] over [the flagship]. Ann: So my next question is really what Jason was getting at. How much of a consideration was cost when you were choosing which school or program to go to? Now some of you haven t chosen yet, but you re in the process. Some of you have made the decision, so you ll have a little more juice to answer this question. In other words, how much of a factor was price? Patricia: It was a small factor for me because I knew I wanted to go back to school, and I wanted to follow my dreams and passion. [The local community college] had an option where I could pay every month. They had flexibility, so... Randall: I haven t chosen anywhere yet, but debt is definitely going to be one of the major factors. I don t want to put myself in the poor house trying to get education that may or may not work out. 8

9 Alex: When I was considering colleges, I had to, well, first I looked at the cost by if the cost was pretty high up there instead of looking more into the college I had to push it aside cause if it was sixty grand a year, then that is a lot. Yeah I would get a good education but for that amount of money, it s a lot of money, it s not just chump change. Ann: So what schools were you considering? Alex: At the very beginning, I was looking at schools like [a private nonprofit university], and it had the program I was looking for, a good program. It had a lot of things, and then chuck that. Ann: And what was the next school you were looking at? Alex: [Another private nonprofit university] for a little bit. Ann: And how much was [it]? Alex: It was upper 50s. Ann: And then where did you end up going? Alex: [a public university]. Ann: And how much was that? Alex: It s like twenty thousand, or maybe a little less, per year. Ann: Jason, you said that you had a number in your head. What was your number? Jason: Yeah, no more than 40k. I had a huge list of schools. First thing I did was look at cost, and if the school was more than that, I just took it off my list. Maybe some I applied to see if I would be given any grants or scholarships, and if I didn t receive them, or didn t end up applying, they were obviously off my list. I kind of narrowed it down from there. I looked at other things besides cost, like program, amount of students, activities, sports, other things that schools had to offer besides the cost. Definitely cost is a huge factor. Ann: Who else wants to talk about how much cost was a factor? Linda? Linda: Not really. I was just looking at schools that had the programs that I wanted. And graduation rate was what was my top one. It wasn t really cost. Ann: So, what is your plan for paying for school? Tell me the things that you think are going to be in place to help you pay for school whether you re already there or you re thinking about going. What s your plan? Ariana: Right now because I m not employed right now, I qualify for financial aid. So, that s paying for everything at this moment. Patricia: Financial aid, tuition reimbursement, and grants. Male: Loans. Male: Grants, scholarships, loans. 9

10 Female: Financial aid. Ann: Anybody thinking about working while they re in school? Just paying for it as they go? Male: You can actually budget with what you have if you don t want to take out any loans, but Ann: How about be hopeful about future, sort of like Linda and Jason are, I ll have money later? Ok, how about parents? Did the fact that your parents would help you factor in? Kenneth: They paid for my application fees. [laughter] Alex: Yeah they are helping savings and college accounts. Ann: So that gives you a little bit of a cushion. You still have to think about money, but Jason? Jason: Same for me. Ann: And so when you think about paying back, you know that s there for you? It s sort of in the back of your mind because you didn t say it, that s why I m asking. Nobody that didn t come out spontaneously. Did anybody think about sacrificing? Like not getting cable TV? Or not getting a new car? Linda: I could live without a car, but I need my cable. Ariana: This is my second go-round. Before, I went to school for business administration. I went for medical billing and coding. I was working full time. It was a certification program. My way of doing that I had to pay for that. I did get a little bit of financial aid. I had to pay a chunk of that so budgeting was a big thing. I had to pay back the loans. Schools want their money up front. Ann: And how come you re changing? Ariana: To be honest, I had a desk job that wasn t in the field that I went to school for and I wanted to transition so I thought medical billing was good. The jobs that I got offered were little part time jobs that weren t worth me throwing away my state job for. It was just pointless to try to I finished the program, got the certificate, have the skill. Ann: The jobs they offered you were not full time? Ariana: Not full time. They were like 100 steps backwards. No benefits, stuff like that real entry level. And where I m at in my life I couldn t take entry level. I have a system, so I had to stick to it. Ann: Is that what you expected? After that program? Ariana: Not really. I thought it would get me a job that would help me the same way that my current job was. But that wasn t the case. The school gypped me, they tried to put me in a field that wasn t what I went to school for. They offered job placement but they didn t put me in the job that I went to school for. Ann: Are you still paying back those loans? Ariana: A couple of them. I am delaying them because they are delaying me. 10

11 Ann: How many of you assume that you will have debt when you get out? Mark, you re not going to because you re going to an affordable school. Jason, Alex? [Assume debt: yes] Ann: So generally speaking, can we talk about how you feel about taking out loans? How many of you have taken out a student loan? Ariana: I m not going to do it again. Patricia: No, I am actually putting myself through college, and my daughter (too). So, it is basically just by working. Ann: Because you really don t want to take out a loan. Patricia: Not until I really have to. Ann: Has anybody besides Ariana taken out a student loan? [NO.] Let s talk about taking out loans and going into debt for school. Can you just tell me the first thing that comes to mind when I say how do you feel about taking out loans and going into debt for school? Kenneth: It s going to suck. Randall: It s on your credit forever until it is paid off. Alex: I just feel like it does more harm than good. Jason: It could be worth it depending on the situation. Mark: Interest. Ariana: Everything everybody said and everything they re going to say. Patricia: Stress. Linda: Interest, and is it going to be worth it. Jenny: Interest and type of debt. Ann: So some people see it as an investment. It s a way of preparing for your future, and some of you talked that way when you were thinking about going to college that you see college as an investment. Some people think it s something to avoid. It s going to be a weight, and it will make it harder to get ahead stress that kind of thing, and some people say it is a necessary evil. I want to go to school; I got to take out a loan. That s all there is to it. Do any of those ring true for you? If you had to pick one of them? An investment, something to avoid, a necessary evil? Can I convince you that you could see it as an investment? [2-3 saw it as an investment] Female: It could be an investment. Male: It depends on what it s for. Ann: Well, assuming you re going to school for what you want. 11

12 Alex: Yeah, I know, but what I m saying is that people do that for medical school and stuff, but you don t know--- cause afterwards there s a grace period, and then they re going to start asking for the money back. If you went, and you get the degree, there s such a scarcity of jobs, it s just so hard to come by. Even if you did go to your dream school, dream program, got like all that, and you graduated, but if you still can t find the job, then that debt is going to start coming up, and you re not going to have any way of paying it off. Linda: One thing I did find out when I was doing my investigation about loans is that as long as you re in school, you don t have to pay them. Just keep going to school, take a pottery class they work with you. As long as you re in school, they won t come after you for a loan. Ann: How many of you would have said necessary evil? I guess none of you. And how many of you said a weight something to avoid? [Several said avoid.] Male: I guess it depends on what field you want to go into. Ann: And just to clarify, when I talk about school after high school, I m talking about credentialed programs for a bachelor s degree or an associate degree. I m not talking about when you choose to go to law school or medical school or So, I just mean the sort of first degree that you would get. Does anybody else want to talk about taking out a student loan and what it means to them? Many of you talked about financial aid. Do you think of student loans as financial aid? Or do you think of them as two separate things? [Two separate things, all the way.] Ann: Does anyone think of them as the same? Linda: A little bit, because it s not necessarily coming out of your pocket at that point in time. It s not necessarily a gift--you eventually have to pay it back--but it is not coming out of your pocket at that moment. Jenny: Yeah. That s how I feel. Ann: Did you want to say something Jason? So, you don t think of them as the same thing? Student loan is separate from financial aid. Jason: No. Male: As long as you don t have to pay it back. Ann: As long as you have to pay it back, it s not financial aid. Male: Yeah, one is one that you have to pay back. There s no strings attached with financial aid. Ann: Linda, you talked about when you were doing your investigating so tell me a little bit about where you go to find your information about financial aid. Linda: Google. And some of the schools that I was inquiring about I would ask them about it. As long as you re in school, and if you are not working they have deferments for financial hardships and stuff like that. It wasn t as intimidating as it was talking to people who took out student loans [who made it sound worse, as in, don t take out a student loan]. 12

13 Patricia: From the school--i am in the association for nursing students, so they have scholarships and different programs where you can pay for school Ann: How did you get into that association? Patricia: I m a nursing student. I researched it. Ann: How else do you get information about financial aid? Kenneth: Most schools have a web site where you can go for scholarships, so they tell you what they offer as a school. Mark: Google. I wouldn t say my friends are the college-y type. Randall: Like the Google searching, scholarship searches scholarships.com. There are other ones that tell you what grants you would qualify for. So I ve been kind of looking at because I m trying to get as much of it from somebody s else s pocket without having to go into mine. Ann: Was the information that you found helpful or was it confusing? Linda: Confusing some of the terminology I wasn t familiar with when I first started investigating, and when they were talking about the interest and capitalizing on it and stuff like that, I was like oh wait a minute, wait. That s when I started reaching out to some of the schools and asking friends more information about it and kind of clarified it a little bit. Randall: There is some of them that I was looking at in regards to grants and scholarships, they would say must be an entering freshman senior year or something like that. I was like, I don t know, I guess I couldn t apply to this even though I would technically be an entering freshman. Some of them are worded really weird. I don t know if I should or shouldn t. And I don t want to waste the postage on sending something in. If there was an or phone number, yes, definitely. But a lot of them were like here s an application and this is where you mail it. Ann: Can you tell me what the difference is between a grant, a scholarship, and a loan? Linda: Grants and scholarships is free money, and loans is money that you have to pay back. Male: Scholarships are usually from an organization, more so than a person. Alex: They usually have requisites, like you have to maintain a GPA, whereas grants it is just like here s the money. Scholarships you have to be in a program, community service Randall: But yeah, loans are basically debt forever. Ann: Any other distinctions? Male: Debt forever. Ann: Ok, what is interest, what is principal? How does interest on student loans work? How do you find out? Randall: Basically you take out a loan, and then for the rest of your life you ll pay interest on that loan and never touch the principal. They ll give you a loan, cover all four years, get you in debt for about 50k, and then you ll make your monthly payment and never finish. 13

14 Linda: I think the interest kind of increases the longer it takes you to pay it off--the longer you take to pay it off, it jumps up a little bit. Ann: Did you know Ariana, when you took out the student loan? Ariana: No, I didn t know the interest rate. Ann: Does anyone not understand how interest works? Female: We all understand interest. Ann: How many schools or programs, those of you who have already applied, how many did you apply to? [Some many, as many as 7, some just 1.] Ann: Is the reason to apply to more than one, like dating, the more you ask, the more likely you ll get a yes. Female: The less no s you ll probably get. Male: I wanted to see how much money I d get before making decision. Ann: When you guys threw out numbers, there was a $60K, there was a $40K, what did that number entail? Where does that number come from, what does it include? Male: Tuition, room and board, books, transportation. [The number they see in yearly installments, not really total over four years. It includes tuition, room & board, may even include incidentals like books.] Male: They usually break it down. (The school when it gives you the bill/financial aid.) Ann: So when you think about the total cost of attendance, do you think of it as the entire cost of the program, or do you think of it as a yearly cost? Do you think it s going to cost me 160K or do you think it s going to cost me 40K per year? Male: Yearly. Ariana: I think about the big picture but to keep myself sane and not think I am going to be working until I m 99 to pay it back, I just think about it yearly. But I am conscious of it. Ann: Patricia? You re going part time? Patricia: Yes. Yearly. Linda: Yearly. Ann: Are there other costs besides room and board? And the tuition you also have to think about? Participants: Textbooks. 14

15 Ann: But it sounds like sometimes that s included in that big number. Participants: Not all the time. Male: Transportation, if it s far or if it s commuting. You have to consider it. Ann: We are interested in whether people are thinking about the whole outlay for the program for the four- or twoyear degree or are they just thinking about tuition, and then they re kind of shocked at the rest of the things that actually cost money. But it sounds like there wouldn t be a lot of shock. Alex: All the money starts to add up if you decide to stay on campus, and you have to pay for room and board and all the additional fees. That s when the money occurs. Ann: Would you have considered staying home and going to college? Jason: No. It is an experience, meeting with people, and gaining friends, and stuff like that and socializing and networking. Ann: For those of you who are in that stage where you could stay home, would you consider staying home? Female: I would stay home. Alex: First semester I was a commuter, but of course spent most of my time on campus. And then this semester, I am living on campus, and it is a big difference. I don t have to worry about rush hour and gas and commuting. Ann: Would you consider it an improvement for you? Alex: Yeah, it is an improvement because a lot of times if it starts raining, people are just really bad drivers, and traffic starts to build up, so even if I accommodated for traffic, I could be spending another hour, hour and a half sleeping or doing work--so many other things you could do with that time. Jason: 100% college living on campus. I feel like at my age that s part of the college experience. Ann: How big an influence when you finally got the statement--here s what you will get for this school, and this is what it will ultimately cost you per year--how much was that the deciding factor when choosing between schools? Alex: [My public university] just gave me $2k a year, only a tenth. I m not saying it s not a lot, but other schools would give you more because they are more expensive. But for how much the school costs ($20k), $2k is a good amount of money. Ann: How many of you have actually gotten financial aid? (some) Kenneth: [The public university I initially attended] offered half of what it would cost to stay there per year, and financial aid covered the rest. I wasn t paying anything for school. I graduated high school valedictorian. Ann: I guess you had some help or guidance from school? Kenneth: I had a guidance counselor help communicate with [the university]. Ann: Those of you who have had to do it yourself, who gave you advice on financial aid? Did you ever talk to anybody? Did they ever give you good advice? Did they steer you in a good direction or a bad direction? 15

16 Linda: The financial aid advisors at some of the schools I was interested in, they would give you a little bit of help as far as filling out FASFA and help with a code. Not too much unless they felt like you were going to stay there. Patricia: Not really. The professors would let me know if there were scholarships available. Before school? No. I just applied. Ann: And did you do the same for your daughter? Patricia: Yes. She got financial aid. No, she doesn t have a loan. She is working she gets grants, scholarships, and I m helping her. She s living at home. Ann: And where does she go to school? Patricia: At [the community college where I attend] as well. She also gets tuition reimbursement from her job, and that helps. Ariana: Before I started school I didn t have any guidance as to how to make a decision, or how to fill out anything, which is probably how I ended up getting a loan, doing it by myself. They have the financial aid people, and they help you, but in some situations they are more or less want to help their school. The more students they have, the more money they get. I feel now the person I thought was helping me, they were helping the school. Randall: I did talk to somebody at [a local community college], that did seem to be their main focus at all costs trying to get you into that school. Like, oh yeah, you can take out these loans because no matter what, they are securing their own money. They don t care about how you re paying the debt. They re going to get their money, and they don t care what happens after that. You can drop out tomorrow. Ann: Does anybody think differently than Randall? That they do care? Male: Money is money no matter where it comes from. Female: Maybe they like you when you re coming out of high school. Male: Also, graduation rates don t play too much into colleges. Like when you re at community colleges, doesn t really factor in much because most people go in and transfer out. Linda: I look at both the graduation rate and the transfer rate. Male: Because I was about to say that a lot of the colleges in Maryland, the graduation rates are low. That s because most people go to college here and then transfer somewhere better. Ann: Right, but that wouldn t be a drop out. Jenny? Jenny: I just went on the websites. I don t think they care. They just want to get money for their schools. Mark: When I initially started looking for the school, I guess I filled out like ineedschool.com or whatever the website was. I don t know. That might not have been the actual website. But I filled it out to say what degree I wanted to get, and I was looking for a basic form of what type of school I was looking for. And within an hour and a half my phone was going nuts. Ann: So you didn t feel like they were really trying to invest in you as a person. 16

17 Mark: Right. Ann: Alex or Jason, did you get any advice about financial aid, and if so, who was it from? Alex: I mean, scholarships. I applied for them, and I got most of them. [I found out about them] from my high school. I had a list of different scholarships you could apply for. I applied for many. Jason: Like he was saying, high school had some scholarships that were associated with the high school. The high school wasn t giving us any money, but had scholarships that were associated with it. And beyond that, the universities offered me scholarships and grants for college. I d say the majority gave me scholarships or grants. Ann: Has anybody here used a net-price calculator? [NONE.] It s something that is usually on a school s website, and it s something that helps students estimate the actual costs that the college will be because sometimes the sticker price and the cost of what the school will actually be is different. [One may have, but he didn t remember any details.] Jason: I think I ve used one before. Ann: You don t remember which school or which one? Jason: No, but it factors in loans and interest rates and books, beyond the cost of tuition, room and board, to figure out how much it will cost per year, per semester. Ann: How about the idea of it? That you could get a sense at the beginning stages of looking at schools, you can get a sense of how much financial aid you might get before you start filling out, making phone calls. Does it appeal to you? [Yes, they liked it.] Saves time. Male: Cuts a lot of the work out. Just entering the numbers, do the questions, and it can tell you how much you can possibly get. Ann: How about the idea of the sticker price and the actual price of college? Does that difference ring true to you guys? Or does it usually cost what it says it will cost to you? Linda: Some of the school websites that I went on had a price, and then when I was looking into the certification program, I went to meet with a financial aid advisor from [a for-profit college], and when I looked on the website it said 12K, and when she put it down on paper it was almost 16K. It was a lot more, and that kind of gave me a sense of distrust. Ann: About how much was [the public four-year college where Alex and Jason attend] for a year? Alex: 20K Jason: I don t know the exact cost. Between 20 and 60K. Ariana: 8K Patricia: 4-5K 17

18 Linda: 10K Ann: I know it s expensive. In your head, do you think that for the program that you re going for, is it reasonable cost or unreasonable? Like you can t believe you have to pay this much money. Ariana: I think that it s reasonable, and the fact that I m not paying for it, even more so. It still would have been reasonable for me to go. [because she gets financial aid] I can t believe I ve got to pay for education. I could buy the book and probably teach myself, but I think I m just buying a certificate in the end. I think that s what s happening, but if I have to pay for it, it s reasonable. Male: Just need the piece of paper. Ann: I m going to ask you to think hypothetically because you don t have student loans, but you have friends who have student loans, and you have ideas about, cause Randall has told us, how much money they re going to cost you, but I want to get a sense of how do you estimate what you think people will be paying back in student loans when they finish school. If you took out 20K in student loans, and you get your certificate or a bachelor s or associate s degree. You take out 20K, you have to pay it back, do you have any idea what the interest rate for that kind of student loan is--a federal student loan, not a private one from Wells Fargo? [General agreement no] Male: I thought it was something like 6%. Ann: Can you give me what you think that monthly payment would be if you took out a 20K loan? Your grace period is over, and now you get your first little slip that says now you have to pay your bill. What do you think your amount is? Mark: $160. Jason: In the $400s. Alex: I have no idea. I ll say like $240. Ann: So we have $100 to in the $400s. I have this information on good authority that the average monthly payment for someone who took out 20K in student loans for an undergraduate education is $208 per month. So, the 400s were actually double. Does that sound reasonable to you? Linda: It s not too bad. I could afford that. [Generally yes, reasonable.] Mark: My point of view is based off of you are paying extra money. Interest, that s all I m about. That s the line they are going to sell you even with a car you re only paying this much but either way you are paying more. Jason: I think it s reasonable. Ann: But some of you were surprised right? Now there are several options available for paying back student loans. I know that this is a hypothetical situation for many of you if you knew there were different ways you could pay back Tell me different ways you know about paying back student loans. Ariana: I guess a deferment program. If you don t have a way to pay them back, they can t press up on you to make 18

19 them. So as long as you have proof that you can t pay them back, they kind of hold off, because it is subsidized and unsubsidized loans. One of them doesn t start accruing interest until after your deferment time starts again. Ann: You re doing that now, so it s not accruing interest and you re waiting to pay back until you are earning. Randall: I thought that was forbearance Ann: Ok, so tell me about forbearance. Randall: I thought the forbearance was when it doesn t accrue interest and you don t have to make the payments, and deferment you don t have to make the payments, but it still accrues. Ariana: Hey, guess what, you re right cause I did both of those. Linda: Another one they had was income-based repayment, based on how much you are making at the time so if you re making like 8 dollars an hour, you pay them 5 dollars. And it will increase over time. Ann: And what do you think about that option? Linda: I guess it is ok if you are not making enough if you don t have the $208 it can go down to zero dollars if you are not making enough to make payments, but if you making enough, it will go slowly increase back up to $208. Ann: So we talked a little bit about deferment. Had anybody heard of that before? Income-based repayment. Has anybody heard that term before? [Never heard it before, only Linda.] Ann: Nobody talked to you about taking out a student loan and how you might pay it back? Male: They should. Ann: Did your daughter, when she starting to get financial aid out of high school, did they say that this was an option? Patricia: I was just against taking out a loan. The stress of paying it back. I didn t want her to be in debt, I definitely didn t want to be in debt. Ann: There is something called income based repayment, and there are different ways that that works, but let s say you took out a 20K loan, you have to pay $208 a month, and you can t get a job. So, your time has come you ve gotten that little slip that says you have to pay back but you don t have money. You have to contact your lender, and tell them, ok I m in trouble here. And then there s something called IBR, where you would pay 15% of your discretionary income, which could be zero at that time, and your balance is forgiven after 20 years. So, you might end up paying more because you are paying for longer, but it s affordable. When you don t have money, you don t have to pay. When you have a little more, you ll never pay more than what the standard would be, which is $208. You can always pay more if you want to, but they ll never make you pay more. As long as you re in good standing you tell them, you call them and everything is in place, then this is like an option. What do you think of that option? [A LOT OF DISCUSSION.] 19

20 Female: 25 years, though? Male: That s a long time. Randall: That s murder. Murder is like 25 to life. Ann: So, you see it as a prison sentence? Randall: I m just saying that s a long time. Ann: But when you re paying that 10, you have to pay $208 a month for 120 months. Linda: For 25 years you ve just got to pay what you ve got but after 25 it s forgiven. Ann: So you might end up paying more because interest is accruing, but your monthly will be ok. Kenneth: So basically you should work less minimum wage for 25 years. Ann: Would you really stick with a minimum wage job just so you don t have to pay your student loans? Female: No, that s pointless. Kenneth: You got out that student loan to get a job, not avoid it. Male: My house mortgage is 30 years. Ann: So does it turn you off because you heard 25 years? Female: Yeah. Male: All the way off. It s a long time. Randall: You are also talking about you can pay less. But you are adding that interest in for 25 years on top of your $20k. Ann: But after 25 years, even if you aren t finished paying, it s forgiven. Male: But you have to pay every single month for 25 years. Ann: You make $100 a month that s your take home pay they re going to make you pay $15. If you make zero, you ll pay zero Ariana: It s ok, but I think my problem with that is just to think I will be paying on this bill for 25 years. Patricia: You have to be paying some kind of bill. Mark: I m not deep into this college stuff, so I want to ask us. I know that like 20 years ago, what was the percent of jobs that people were getting without college versus now? 25 years, I m assuming that s for an AA or whatever, so 25 years of paying that off, and in 19 years, you find out I still need to get another degree cause now cause it s a sliver mark. 20

21 Ann: Ok, so because you are persistent in needing to know the details, my experts out there said you can pay it off before 25 years, it s just that 25 years is when forgiveness happens if you still owe. Ariana: If that s the case I might as well stick to my 10-year plan it s not that bad. If you pay it off in time you don t have to worry about it. Female: I don t like the idea of expanding. Ann: Let me just try one more time. You are working hard, you have kids, you have bills, this is just one more bill if you go into default, you re in big trouble, your credit report, bad things happen right? So they re making it so you can afford one less bill a month it might take you longer, and you might have to pay more, but in terms of your day to day life, you re not getting hit with any of these bad things that can happen if you don t pay your bills. So, it s making it affordable, you re still paying, but Randall is right, the interest is still accruing. Female: So does the interest go away too after the 25 years? Ann: All is forgiven after 25 years, but you have to keep paying until that time. Male: That seems ok, but you have to pay for 25 years. It s just putting it into perspective, you don t know what s going to be happening. You don t know if you will be able to pay it off. Linda: That s all the more reason to get it after 25 years all is forgiven. Male: You can always switch it over right? Saying you were paying the $208 a month, you can always switch it over to Ann: What I said is, you would have to contact your lender. You call up your lender and say I m having trouble, and they work something out with you. You give them your W-2 or your taxes; this is what you made last year; we ll base it on that; and move forward from there. Every year you have to re-talk to them, to decide what your payment will be. Randall: I think that works better for entry-level type students. Let s say you take home 35k you, and you have a house and a car, and you have a kid, you have debt so you are not taking home 35K after all that then that would be better for people who have a lot of bills. Female: That would be my question; they do take that into fact? Discretionary income? Ariana: I don t 100% hate it any more. Ann: I guess what has happened here is it s a government program for a government loan, and they re trying to make it more why do they give you loans to go to school because it s good for society to have educated people so they try to make it affordable, and then if people can t pay them back, we have a big problem because people go into debt. So, the intent is that you can stay in good standing while trying to pay back your loan. Randall: How about they just reduce the interest rates, or get rid of interest and just put a set amount? Alex: Because then they won t be making as much money, and they don t care about your story, just as long as the money gets to them. Randall (being sarcastic): And you know colleges and people who work for them, they re starving and they can t afford to have any less money in their pockets. I heard the president of Towson was living in a halfway house. What 21