Questions from CTE Transfer Presentation at SSS Conference October 2009

Transcription

1 Questions from CTE Transfer Presentation at SSS Conference October 2009 Question: You [the presenters] said We need to change the way we think about and act to support CTE Transfer. I agree. Have you considered the way we structure our colleges (as CTE versus transfer under deans) and the language we use locally and statewide which perpetuates the generalization that CTE isn t for transfer? We agree that colleges transfer and CTE programs have a long history of running parallel to each other without interface. Given the way the economy and workforce requirements are changing, this approach requires reconsideration. As discussed in the presentation, intermediateand long-term workforce projections indicate that our state s economy depends on our ability to increase the supply of baccalaureate-trained workers in a large number of CTE occupations, including information technology, health care, education, green and clean energy and logistics. For our CTE students, this excess demand for baccalaureate-trained workers translates into a tremendous opportunity if we can provide them with the technical and motivational support required for transfer. Needless to say, this opportunity does not necessarily dictate that all CTE students should become transfer students, but rather that all CTE students should be educated and trained in an environment that is characterized by the same transfer culture (including eliminating the terminal language used when describing career and technical education) often available to non-cte students. Transferable units?? How do we find a better way to measure community college success? If we ask on the application why are you here? If it s to get a job and they leave to get a job, we succeed? This question was a bit hard to read. We believe you had two questions. For the first question about transferable units : There is an important difference between transferable and articulated units. The former do not necessarily count toward lower-division major preparation while the latter do. Students can potentially complete dozens of transferable units prior to transfer and find that none of them count toward satisfaction of lower-division major requirements at their receiving institution. By contrast, students with guidance from counselors, instructors and other support staff and with further help from ASSIST can strategically focus on just those courses that contribute toward degree completion because they articulate with the receiving institution, If a student s educational goals include transfer, we recommend they complete as many required courses, including all lower-division major requirements, prior to transfer. The main reason is that it is less expensive for the student (and for California) to follow this course of action. Page 1 Questions from the Strengthening Student Success Conference Presentation October 2009

2 For the second question about measuring success: One way to assess outcomes is to compare what students say they want to achieve (e.g. as stated on their initial application to the college) to what they actually achieve. Another way is to look at behavior: What are students actually doing and achieving and what milestones can we use to chart and assess their progress? One milestone may be whether students complete basic skills math and advance to college-level math. Another might be whether they complete a certain number of transferable units. For CTE measuring, success is particularly challenging because the range of successful outcomes span from upgrading a work-related skill to transfer. One key point is that you cannot determine whether you succeed unless you have clearly articulated outcome goals. For CTE, some programs may be designed to offer short-term training to unemployed workers and success may be measured in terms of the percentage of participants who find (training-related) jobs. The measure may include those who did not complete the program, but who nevertheless found work (an outcome which, needless to say, is not easy to document). However, students generally benefit from completing as much education as possible as evidenced by data showing that the more years of education you have, the more likely your salary will be higher and the less likely you are to be unemployed. As an illustration, the current unemployment rate for those with only a high school degree is higher than it is for those who have completed additional years of education. Overall, it is important that those who coordinate and manage CTE programs clearly define their program s goals, determine indicators of success related to these goals and gather and analyze related evidence to assess whether the goals are achieved. A final thought related to the way we think about CTE. One early indicator of a CTE program being strategic and effective is the level of awareness its students have about their education and career options. Do they know which courses to take to obtain an associate s degree or certificate? Do they know that transfer is an option? Do they know what to do to achieve these options? Do they know what jobs they can achieve with different levels of preparation? There is a huge push for green education. None of the occupations listed are in the green areas. You are right and green collar jobs are projecting strong growth. However, given current practice of constructing and communicating labor market data, information on these types of jobs is difficult to capture because they run across so many sectors from construction to energy and water management to environmental technology. Nevertheless, a recent study conducted by the Page 2 Questions from the Strengthening Student Success Conference Presentation October 2009

3 Pew Charitable Trust identified California as leading the growth in green jobs and estimated that in 2007 alone clean energy generated 125,390 new jobs. The study can be found at: A Green Jobs Guidebook recently released by the Environmental Defense Fund also outlines which green occupations found in California will require a certificate, associate s or bachelor s degree. For more information, visit: Do you think that a student who has the total economic support of their family are more likely to transfer and receive their degree than a student who has to support themselves and their family supporting yourself and your family in the present vs. not supporting your family for four years until you receive your degree? We don t have any data on this, except for evidence generated by the RP Group s general study on transfer (to be posted on the following website by December 1, 2009: which indicates that younger students are more likely to transfer than older students. One reason for this is likely that younger students are less likely to have family responsibilities that compete for attention with their school work and more likely to have parental support. An investment into multiple years of education is likely to be more difficult to make if you have family considerations. As far as work responsibilities are concerned, students we interviewed and who contributed to our focus group emphasized that their need to work means that they seek baccalaureate programs offering flexibility. For example, several students explained that a program offering online options and night classes is more feasible because it makes it easier to balance work and school. How did you track the CTE students beyond community college? We used the National Student Clearinghouse. Please note that we are able to establish this way whether and where the students transferred, but not whether they actually transferred into baccalaureate programs corresponding to their CTE area of study. Why do you think the University of Phoenix is more successful than UCs and CSUs? We did not mean to say they are more successful, but rather that they enroll more transfer students than any single UC campus and that a disproportionate percentage of African American and Latino students choose Phoenix as their transfer destination. There are several reasons why this may be the case. One is that Phoenix invests heavily in recruitment. Second, Phoenix offers flexibility that makes it easier for students to work and study and loans to cover expensive tuition fees and other expenses Page 3 Questions from the Strengthening Student Success Conference Presentation October 2009

4 How do we change the perception of CTE? We change the way we talk about CTE and emphasize that CTE outcomes include transfer. We emphasize that, for the foreseeable future, most jobs and employment growth will be in CTE disciplines and that many of these occupations will ultimately require baccalaureate preparation. We community colleges and university partners work as hard to build pathways that span from the community colleges to four-year institutions as we work to build pathways that extend from high schools to the community colleges. In many instances, building these pathways will mean expanding existing high school-community college pathways to include university-level training. What type of outreach is done at community colleges to encourage students to go beyond a 2- year institution? It varies tremendously from program to program and institution to institution. We will have much more information on this issue after we complete the second phase of our study which will include investigation of strategies and services employed by community college CTE programs with high transfer rates and their four-year partners. What strategies to transfer coursework that borders upper division (i.e., nursing courses, software development)? We are not sure what you mean. If you want to clarify in an , we will add the question and response to this posting. ESchiorring@rpgroup.org Have you noted that interdisciplinary programs are probably not represented? Yes, these programs are very difficult to capture, especially given the TOP code system. Think of Pacific who target Latinos and African Americans. We were not sure what you meant. If you were referring to the fact that University of the Pacific like Phoenix University targets Latinos and African Americans, we will look into this. If you want to clarify in an , we will add the question and response to this posting. ESchiorring@rpgroup.org The surveys and focus groups how many participants? What percentage response rate? For the survey with CTE administrators, faculty, counselors, transfer coordinators and directors and other community college stakeholders, we received 320 completed surveys (from 410 Page 4 Questions from the Strengthening Student Success Conference Presentation October 2009

5 responses). Since we posted the survey on a number of list servs used by the target population, it is not possible to determine the response rate. 38 students completed a pre-transfer survey. 26 transfer students completed another survey specifically targeted for those who already have transferred. Both surveys were pilot efforts that will be taken to a larger scale during Phase II of the study. We conducted pilot interviews with four students, including one community college and three transfer students. More interviews will be conducted this Fall and in Spring We piloted one focus group with community college students enrolled in a transfer-oriented health education program. Additional focus groups will be conducted this Fall and in Spring Changes since October 2008? Please refer to updated website for a summary of the latest findings. Page 5 Questions from the Strengthening Student Success Conference Presentation October 2009