BOARD OF MANUFACTURED HOUSING Fully Transcribed Teleconference Meeting Minutes TIME: 1:00 P.M. DATE: November 6th, 2008 PLACE: By Telephone Department of Fire, Building and Life Safety 1110 West Washington Phoenix, Arizona 85007 I. Call To Order The meeting was called to order by Chairman Ross Wait, at 1:00 p.m. II. Answering Roll Call Ross Wait, Chairman, representing Retailers; Paul DeSanctis, Neal Haney, Carlo Leone Catherine McGilvery Absent Roger Wendt, Staff Present: Bob Barger, Director, Department of Fire, Building and Life Safety; John Stahmer, Deputy Director, Department of Fire, Building and Life Safety; MaryAnn Knight, Debra Blake, Assistant Deputy Director, Department of Fire, Building, and Life Safety; Camila Alarcon, Attorney General s Office for the Department of Fire, Building, and Life Safety Jessica Chapman, Administrative Assistant and Recording Secretary for the Board of Manufactured Housing. Jessica Chapman: We also have members of the public, Bill Trottier from the Arizona housing Bob Barger: Okay Ross you want to get this started? III. Review, discussion and possible action regarding implementation of Administrative Fees Chairman Ross Wait: Yep very good, the third item on the agenda is review, discussion and possible action regarding administrative fees, so I ll turn that over to you Bob, I believe you re the one that should be doing that. Bob Barger: Alright, that was the only item I think we had on the agenda. Chairman Ross Wait: That is correct
Bob Barger: Okay. What that s in regards to everybody is the Department of fire, building & life safety, and I don t know if you all got what we sent out to you yesterday but what it is in regards to it s actually an administrative training fee. The Department of Fire, Building & life safety is doing outreach training across the state of Arizona and to attend those classes is a $100 fee and we were just getting with the Board to see if we can get approval for that to see that we can do the outreach training and that the fees would then go into a training fund that we would continue during the outreach training. It s to recover the cost of actually doing the training it s a, how long is the class? MaryAnn Knight: It s a four hour class Bob Barger: It s a four class and the people that attend will actually get some CEU, continuing education units toward the new HUD installation program that starts in January. So just an update on that incase you didn t know, briefly in that process is that HUD delayed the installation standards from October 20 th to January 1 st so what we re doing is we are offering training packages through our office, it s not mandatory, it s voluntary if people want to attend it they can get their credits through other means if they wish to do that. We thought it would be nice to, for us to put together a package and offer a training package that allowed them to sit with us and we ll go over the stuff that we have for them. That s basically what it is. Catherine McGilvery: Okay may I ask a question? Chairman Ross Wait: Certainly, go ahead. Catherine McGilvery: What is in place now? What is required now for training? Bob Barger: There s nothing required at this time but the new installation standards will require, eight hours of continuing education per year. Isn t it 12? Jessica Chapman: HUD requires 12, we require 8 Bob Barger: HUD requires 12 hours of continuing education. Catherine McGilvery: But that s just starting in January, they didn t have this before, is that what you re talking about? Bob Barger: That is correct it s all part of the new installation standards that the folks will have to be getting 12 hours of continuing education over the course of the year, annually they have to get continuing education. You can get it through community college; I don t think they developed a list of what MaryAnn Knight: What I ve been telling them is that we ll have it out on the website which classes and what conferences and things like that. Bob Barger: Did you hear that? Board: No, not really, not everything no. Bob Barger: What it can be is, Maryann is here and she s been instrumental in putting it together with Chuck and everybody. Is that we are putting it together on the website what will constitute continuing education units for everybody that s in the state? It can be through a community college, it could be conferences, it could be a number of different things that allow people to get their continuing education on an annual basis. So it can be offered through different revenue, or avenues but I think we re going to also probably to continue to offer training packages around the state on an annual basis just to also assist with that.
Neal Haney: I have two questions; this is only for installers is that correct? MaryAnn Knight: No Bob Barger: No it s for dealers, manufacturers, installers, everybody. You mean on the HUD standard Roger? Or Neal, I m sorry Neal Haney: Yea this the requirement for the continuing education is that for dealers, sales licenses or just installers? Bob Barger: It s for all licensees Catherine McGilvery: All licensees, it says state licensees will be required, yea. Now who will all do the training? Bob Barger: Through our office? Catherine McGilvery: Yes Bob Barger: It s going to be Chuck Kisseberth and Maryann Knight Catherine McGilvery: Okay Bob Barger: and Chuck as you know is in charge of the installation inspector and stuff so we re putting together the training package. We do have one scheduled for Monday I think in Kingman. Neal Haney: Okay I have several questions about this. One is what I just asked, so all licensees even sales persons will have to go through these classes? MaryAnn Knight: Not necessarily these classes but classes toward their license renewal Bob Barger: For continuing education John Stahmer: They can take classes elsewhere. Mr. Chairman and members of the board, this is John Stahmer speaking they can take classes any place this is, we just are offering these classes because it helps for two reason to be brutally honest. One is it helps our revenue stream and two it s a cheaper faster more efficient way for the consumer to get these classes out of the way but by no means are they bound to take them through the agency. Neal Haney: Okay in most other professions, in the legal profession and the real estate profession there are also continuing education requirements and there are requirements set up for those programs that they need to meet certain requirements in order to be approved as accepted for continuing education credits, is there such a deal with HUD or with the state so that classes have to be the curriculum and the materials and things like that have to be approved or is it just as long as you get something? MaryAnn Knight: This is Maryann knight since we ve been approved by HUD to administer the program we have been given the authority to determine what those classes would be. Neal Haney: Okay. Bob Barger: So Neal this is Bob again, actually because we did get our fully approved installation program letter from HUD for the state of Arizona I think we ve determined that we are able to set the level of CEUs for our program and we re actually setting it at 8 instead of 12
for the state and again, it s a process for us to make it easier. I ll retract that we may have to look to see if we can go below what the HUD standards are. MaryAnn Knight: We can Bob Barger: Never mind I ve been corrected we can do that. So as far as the classes and everything go you re right everybody has to take it they have to get the continuing education processes and the process of us offering these classes again, makes it a little bit more convenient possibly for people to get it and it s, everybody needs to understand that training funds that we collect will be put into a training fund and we re going to use that for continuing education training for the state. It doesn t go into the general fund. Neal Haney: Okay I ve got one more question, I know with the real estate department and the legal side of it when (unintelligible) requires to have so many hours for me to have on a real estate license is 24 hours and there is no way I can attend a 4 hour class and get 6 hours worth of credit, it appears that what you are saying in the letter that was sent out to us. Bob Barger: That s what we re offering if you can get a 2 hour seminar somewhere or something else that qualifies or quantifies for that then that s acceptable also, we will have to break down and determine how many credits or continuing education credits that particular class will be worth so I think what we re going to have to do is build some sort of a process, put it online and say what you have to do is to submit what you ve attended and then we would put a value on that. Neal Haney: Oh boy, that s going to be real tough to do because ever other continuing education requirement that I ve seen in this state and some other ones when they say you ve got to have 6 credits they re talking about 6 hours. You ve got to have 24 credits it s 24 hours it s not 4 hours and we re going to give you credit for six. Bob Barger: You are correct; it will be hour for credit. If we re requiring 8 credits you ll have to attend somehow through the process through the year 8 hours of continuing education to get your 8 credits. Neal Haney: Okay and the reason I ask that is because in what you sent out you were saying that if you attend any of these 4 hour classes you re going to get six credits and I don t see how we can do that. John Stahmer: Mr. Chairman and members of the Board when I was in school lots of times my classes were forty five minutes long and we would get credit for an hour, so Neal Haney: Generally what they do is for every hour you John Stahmer: I know Neal Haney: So if you re going to go four hours straight and take no break then you might be able to get away with calling that five hours. Chairman Ross Wait: Cause I just completed all 24 hours for my real estate over the course of the last 6 months and I think what Neal is saying is correct. As long as it s on that same basic things where every hour there is a 10 minute break or whatever it is and so that means you know you re spending 15 minutes an hour actually in class it s a little different they have all of the courses also online. But online when you re done with them, you re done with them if you could get it done in 2 hours it took you two hours but you get 3 credit hours more. Bob Barger: Right and keep in mind the packages that we re offering now are kind of before the fact because we want to offer them for folks to be ready for the January 1 st deadline so we are
offering CEUs for the four hour class so it s kind of an incentive to get ahead of it because we are going to apply these classes toward the CEUs for 2009. Neal Haney: Okay, I guess that brings up another question. How soon after January 1 st does the licensee have to get his hours in? Bob Barger: It s an annual process Neal. I don t think it we may have to search Does it have to be applied to when they renew their license? MaryAnn Knight: Yes Bob Barger: Okay we ll probably do it on an annual basis and it won t necessarily be when you come into renew your license it s just if we can determine if you don t get your CEUs on an annual basis, because each licensee comes in you know different times of the year and things like that. Neal Haney: Right Catherine McGilvery: Yea Bob Barger: So I think it s best for us to go from January to January and if people don t have their CEUs when they come in to renew their license we ll say that you have to get them or that we ll say if they come in after that fact and had a year to get them and they don t have them we ll have to deal with that at that time. Neal Haney: Okay Catherine McGilvery: Yea, that was going to be my question is, do they get their license renewed without any CEUs? Bob Barger: In 2009 yes, but I think as we go through it then because the 2009 CEUs you get those will apply to 2010 because it s a new program so you have to start of January 1 st and okay you have 12 months to get your CEUs and that s going to apply toward the 2010. So then once we get into that cycle everybody should be able to get their CEUs in on an annual basis to renew their license. We ll have to research that a little bit more to make sure that will work out. Again it s a new program and CEUs are going to be required by HUD and those kind of things so we need to get something started and we do want to go out and offer these training packages again voluntary if people want to attend or not and we would like to charge a hundred dollars per person on it and again, it s one of those things where if a person doesn t want to attend our classes they can start in January 1 st getting their classes wherever they feel necessary to get them. Neal Haney: If I understand correctly HUD because you have substantially equivalent or you ve been certified to be the administrator of the HUD program or however you say that Bob Barger: Correct NH: You re the ones who get to determine what classes, whether it through a community college, a state college, a real estate school or whatever, is going to apply to this program, is that correct? John Stahmer: Exactly Neal Haney: So conceivably a person can go down to one of the colleges or one of the real estate schools or even the real estate schools on line and take classes that would apply both to their real estate license and to their department license?
John Stahmer: I think so but it has to be related to manufactured housing, there has to be some (unintelligible) to manufactured housing. Bob Barger: You re right Neal we have to review that because as far as a dealer that may be applicable or a sales person. As far as just an installer depending on the licensee and things that could possibly be different so we have to actually figure that out to say you re going to take a building construction class, an electrical class or something. As far as that process goes, but what we do want to do is kind of review this. Right now what we are doing is the classes are applying to the new installation standard and those are the only classes we are offering right now, through the state if people want to take that. As we go through this and as we get closer to January 1 st we will have posted online things that are possibly, will possibly meet the CEUs for different classes of licensees and how we re going to go with that and different topics and even have people submit stuff say, you know I went to this class, it was two days I went through two days say Arizona housing association conference up in Prescott or wherever that s at and we could apply the CEUs towards that. So I think as we go through this and again it s relatively new on exactly what we re going to have as licensees (unintelligible) the standards for CEUs but again right now, the process that we re in right now is we wanted to get something out to offer classes for the new installation standards and who was it that had the class the other day? Clayton? MaryAnn Knight: Clayton had it a couple of weeks ago Bob Barger: See if we d had this in place, Clayton had that class a couple of weeks ago where they did some installation stuff that would have possibly applied to the CEUs Catherine McGilvery: Okay so it depends on the license that you re applying for that would become what part of the training you would need? Is that what you re saying? If I m a salesperson do I need the installation training? MaryAnn Knight: Yes you do Bob Barger: Yes Catherine McGilvery: Okay so no matter what my license is I have to have all aspects of the training. Bob Barger: Chairman and members of the board we are going to have to look at that I think right now again all we re offering is the installation part of that and anybody that would take that, that would apply toward CEUs and we would have to, again it s just been mentioned to me that we re a little bit off topic in discussing how we re going to manage the other parts of the CEU program because all we wanted to do was discuss the current system that we have in place right now for the $100 fee that we would like to apply for the classes that we are offering at this time just through our agency Neal Haney: I understand that and I think this is relevant to that. Because as you pointed out if you re going to take a four hour class worth six hours of credit, that s relevant to the topic that s on the agenda. Bob Barger: As it relates to our class correct. Neal Haney: Right and if I m a dealer or a sales person and I take this class, this installation class it has nothing to do with what I m doing you re going to determine which classes apply to which category of license
Bob Barger: I think initially with the new installation standards Neal, I think that the new installation standards aperitif to manufacturers, dealers, sales people, everybody understand the new installation standards. So again, we re offering this again, there are other avenues and other people can put classes together to offer this training because everybody has a copy of the new installation standards and things and that s all we re presenting at this time is the new installation standards that HUD has come up with that s going to be effective January 1 st so you re right I think it s imperative that on the new installation standards that everybody understands how that implies whether you re a dealer or a manufacturer or the installer or whatever and especially from the anchoring stand point and some other things that are taking place. I understand where you re coming from as far as how is this all going to come together and it may require us to get together again on our next agenda process to maybe get together next month to review how we were going to manage it for all the other aspects of the training part of it but again, what we wanted to discuss today was the approval to charge a $100 per person for the classes that we are offering currently, that we have currently established. I know there s a lot of questions and I think that you ve brought up a lot of questions for us that we re going to have to look at and approve also. Chairman Ross Wait: So are you after a preliminary approval on this? Or an approval? Camila Alarcon: This is Camilla Al if you just want to give the Department the authority to charge a fee and not, I mean, you can motion to do what, to direct the Department what you want them to do. So if you want to give them the ability to charge the fee but you want further information before administering the classes that s one option you can give them, authority to just administer the classes and charge the fee or you know it s up to you. John Stahmer: Mr. Chairman and members of the board this is John I m going to speak once more real quickly this is kind of an incentive that we re trying to offer to give people into the installation standards because we feel that is an important thing that s why we re offering the six credit hours to four hours of class. I was trying to be funny when I talked about the 45 minutes before but you know I guess I ve lost my sense of humor somewhere along the line. It s just an incentive to try to get people to come in. Since we re the agent for HUD for the state of Arizona we have the authority to set up the classes however we would like to set them up and for the installation standards we are so determined that we would like to offer six credit hours for a four hour class. Then charge the $100 fee for this 4 hour class and that is cost recovery. Bob Barger: For doing the regional classes Catherine McGilvery: Okay and then the 6 credits go toward the 2009 credits that they have to earn the total amount that they have to earn? John Stahmer: Exactly. Bob Barger: Mr. Chairman, members of the board this is Bob and again it s just to get the approval to charge $100 if you all don t feel comfortable with that you need to let us know. Let us know whether we need to go forth with it, people need to get the installation information some how we can probably re arrange it online or do it some other way but to have people go out, and what we wanted to do was actually go out into the state and offer classes around the state so that people wouldn t have to travel very far to get it or they wouldn t have to do it online and we could have more of a personal upfront approach to the new installation standards. Chairman Ross Wait: I personally support that Bob and I think it s a good way to think and you know for you and your staff or your trainers or whoever to go out and do that it s not unreasonable that you, the department especially in these economic times where you know at a minimum get reimbursed for the cost I personally support and feel that $100 is reasonable for what s being offered.
Catherine McGilvery: Do they get some kind of a certificate or? John Stahmer: Yes they do Bob Barger: Actually we re putting together quite a nice packet for everybody it s in a formal notebook fashion and they re going to get a certificate of completion for it yes. Carlo Leone: Do you want a second on that Neal Haney: What was the motion? Bob Barger: Mr. Chairman, was that a motion? Or? Chairman Ross Wait: Well I could make it a motion I was trying to give someone else a hint, but I d be more than happy to do so. Bob Barger: Okay I ll leave it with you Mr. Chairman on how you guys want to do that. Catherine McGilvery: Is that a motion? I would Chairman Ross Wait: Yea, I ll make that a motion Catherine McGilvery: Okay and I ll second it Neal Haney: Can you repeat the motion please Chairman Ross Wait: Yea, I ll repeat the motion. The motion is that, it authorizes the department to charge up to a $100 for reimbursement for providing the continuing education requirement for installers and other licensees. Catherine McGilvery: I second Neal Haney: We re going back to I think the question, you raised a little earlier Ross is this a approval for the whole thing or are we just addressing the classes, these installer classes that were with the date starting 11/10 and going through 11/21? John Stahmer: For right now we ll just keep it the installer classes RW: Okay I ll limit my motion to the installer classes Catherine McGilvery: Okay Bob Barger: What we ll do is we have a motion and a second we have it written down and Jessica will call all of the members for a voice vote. Chairman Ross Wait: Is there any further discussion first? Okay Jessica? Jessica Chapman: Ross Wait? Chairman Ross Wait: In Favor Jessica Chapman: Paul DeSanctis? Paul DeSanctis: I Jessica Chapman: Neal Haney?
Neal Haney: I Jessica Chapman: Carlo Leone? Carlo Leone: I Jessica Chapman: Catherine McGilvery Catherine McGilvery: I John Stahmer: Motion is passed Bob Barger: Okay thank you all very much Chairman Ross Wait: Under quote new business I think there is that category isn t there? Call to the public I guess its call to the public. Bob Barger: No we just have call to the public, so I don t know if there is anybody online from the public but we do have Bill Trottier here. Chairman Ross Wait: Okay, he s about as public as it gets Public (Bill Trottier): Thank you Ross. My comment is, is that the state associations are looking at ways of putting together educational content to meet that requirement and so I ll be working with the department here in Arizona to see how our association can also provide continuing education credits, and then you know review that with the Board of directors in December. So the discussion was very well conducted and you brought up some very good points. Chairman Ross Wait: Okay, very good. I have just one question are we progressing regarding the future committee meeting in regards to bonding? Maybe that s directed toward John. John Stahmer: Mr. Chairman yes we are progressing towards that, we are going to be having Bob Barger: Again, we re going to put that on the agenda I believe we had online to do a December meeting so yes, we ll do that and update everybody on that one Chairman Ross Wait: Okay John Stahmer: And I wanted to make one other quick update Camila Alarcon: Unless it s about scheduling another meeting John Stahmer: Okay Camila Alarcon: That s the only thing that was on the agenda. Bob Barger: We ll add some stuff to the next agenda that we have and we ll all get together here in December. Chairman Ross Wait: Okay, alright Catherine McGilvery: We re meeting in December?
Bob Barger: I believe we were going to try and have a meeting in December because of the issues of the new installation standards some other things were coming up the rule package and some other things that were placed on the next agenda. John Stahmer: And the 95/105 percent provision Chairman Ross Wait: Correct Catherine McGilvery: Oh yea, okay Bob Barger: So I think it s important that we put that on the next agenda and we do get together in December because of all the things and how rapidly things are going. Carlo Leone: December what? Catherine McGilvery: 17 th would that be the 3 rd Wednesday? Bob Barger: We ll get back to you. Chairman Ross Wait: Meeting adjourned.