International Conference Call Banco Daycoval 1 st Quarter 2008 Earnings Release April 30 th, 2008

Transcription

1 International Conference Call Banco Daycoval 1 st Quarter 2008 Earnings Release April 30 th, 2008 Operator: Good morning ladies and gentlemen. At this time we would like to welcome everyone to Banco Daycoval's first quarter 2008 results conference call. We would like to inform you that this event is being recorded and all participants should be in a listen only mode during the Bank's presentation. After Banco Daycoval s remarks there will be a question and answer session for analysts and investors. At that time further instructions will be given. Should any participants need assistance during this call please press star, zero to reach an operator. Today's live webcast including both, audio and slideshow may be accessed through Banco Daycoval's website at The slideshow presented by the management today is available on the website in the Investor Relations section. Before proceeding let me mention that forward-looking statements are based on the beliefs and assumptions of Banco Daycoval s Management and are information currently available to the Bank. They involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions because they relate to future events and therefore depend on circumstances that may or may not occur in the future. Investors should understand that the general economic conditions, industry conditions and other operating factors could also affect the future results of Banco Daycoval and could cause results to differ materially from those expressed in such forward looking statements. Today with us we have Mr. Morris Dayan, Banco Daycoval`s Investor Relations Officer. First, Mr. Dayan will proceed to the presentation and after that we will open for Questions and Answers. It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Mr. Dayan. Sir, you may begin. Mr. Dayan: Thank you. Good morning everybody, we are starting now our conference call of the first quarter results of Banco Daycoval. We are very happy with the numbers we achieved in this first quarter. We managed to increase our loan book; we managed not to increase our expenses and with that we managed to increase our main yields and net interest margin. Starting on the page 3, our net income for the first quarter was R$ 70 million, 16% higher than the last quarter. We understand that most of our income, net income, came from credit operation and this is the reason that we managed to increase our net income. Our return on total assets was 4.2% and our ROE was 19.4%. Our income from operations was R$ 98 million, 18% higher than the last quarter. 1

2 On the next slide, slide 4, we have our net interest margin that we are still higher than 12%, our net interest margin was 12.1% and we had 6.3 billion of remunerated assets and with that we have 2 billion of interbank investments. We always understood, we always told investors that we do not really see NIM as a very good ratio to understand our operation, because if we take the money market funding from the interbank investments, our net interest margin will be 16%, so we have in the right side of the page a new ratio, this is the net income/loan portfolio. If we divide the net income by the loan portfolio we have 7.4% annualized, so this is the yield on the loan book and if you compare this number with our peers you will see that we have... we have this number 50% higher than our peers. The idea of Banco Daycoval is to have the higher return with the lower leverage. On slide 5 you have our total loan portfolio. We reached R$ 3.9 billion of loan portfolio, it is an increase of 12% comparing with the last quarter and 100% comparing with 12 months ago, the first quarter of 07. We grew more than the market growth. The average duration of our credit portfolio is 373 days and the duration of our middle market portfolio is just 173 days. 72% of our total credit are due in less than 12 months, so it is a very short-term portfolio. On slide 6 we show that the retail side continues to grow and we continue to diversify our total loan portfolio: 66% of our total portfolio is for middle-market companies; 17% is payroll loans and 17% is auto loans. In the first quarter, due to the seasonality of the middle-market most of the companies they take much more loans at the end of the year to finance their year-end sales. Normally, we prefer to reduce our exposition or the growth in the first quarter. But with the international market volatility we decided, in the beginning of the year, to reduce a little bit the growth, but since March we realized that with all this volatility the Brazilian real economy will not be so much affected. We are still going to have a very strong growth of the GDP this year, so we realized that we can keep growing at the same pace that we were growing before. The payroll lending remains stable, with a stable growth, and the car lending portfolio keeps growing very strong, especially because of the growth in car sales and car finance in Brazil. This market is growing a lot. We have today 25 branches and 200 sales managers to take care of all this loan portfolio. Some of those sales managers are new in the company, so they need more time to mature and we can keep growing without hiring new sales managers. On page 7, speaking about the middle market and trade finance portfolio, just the middle market portfolio reached R$ 2.3 billion and the trade finance R$ 270 million. We have today in more than 2,300 clients in the middle market that owe us more than R$ 50,000, so the growth in this portfolio is a growth related to a growth in number of clients. On slide 8 we have here the profile of our middle market portfolio and idea here is to show that in the last two, three years we did not change the profile 2

3 of our portfolio: 60% of our clients have a volume of credits below R$ 500,000; 92% of our clients have operations of a volume below R$ 4 million; and less than 2% of our clients have volume above R$ 10 million. If you take the 10 biggest clients, they have 7% of our total credit portfolio and 10% of our middle market portfolio. Diversification geography geographically all over Brazil and in all different kind of sector - this is the main driver in this portfolio. Going to the retail side, starting by the payroll lending, we reached R$ 650 million in payroll lending - 19% higher than the last quarter. We have today 430 correspondents and more than 140 agreements for payroll loans. We have 206,000 contracts clients and 32% of our portfolio is for INSS, retirees; 24% for government and 20% for Army. Our average ticket is R$ 3,000. All our origination in the retail side is true origination, we do not buy portfolio, we are originating one by one. The production of payroll, on slide 10 - you can see that on slide 10 - was in the first quarter 174 million, a little bit lower than in the last quarter especially because of the change in some regulation for the INSS. The average duration of this portfolio is 21 months. Now moving to the auto loans on slide 11. This sector has been growing a lot in Brazil. The car sales are growing a lot. We have today R$ 140 billion in car loans. Just in the first quarter the sales, the transactions in new cars were 600,000 transactions and used cars 1,700,000 transactions and 83% of those numbers are financings this without speaking of motos or trucks, just cars. So this market is growing a lot and this is one of the reasons why our portfolio has been growing also and then we decided to show how is our spread in this portfolio. In the upper right side you have our average rate that we charge, that we have in our portfolio is 2.33% a month. If we take out the cost of commission - which is 0.27% - and the average cost of the funding that we had for this portfolio % a month - we have a gross spread, or a spread before loss of 1% a month. We have here an expectation of loss of 4% the pinpoint 18% a month, so our average spread in our portfolio is 0.83%, this is something around 10% a year. It is a very good spread after loss and that is why we like this portfolio. We finance used cars, it is very competitive; there is a lot of big banks and small banks, but since it is such a growing market it is not so hard to grow there. We are showing also the liquidity of this portfolio. Until March we needed to receive R$ 70 million in installments, in payments. We received 96% of that, so the liquidity of this portfolio is 96%. We received 39% in advance, before it gets due; 22% on the day of maturity; another 27% with delay of 30 days. So after 30 days we had an 88% of liquidity. This number will grow until 96%. So 3

4 it is a very good liquidity that we have and this shows why it is a big, a good opportunity to us. We have been doing many steps not to grow so much. We were, for example, the sole bank that increased its lending rate last month. No other bank increased their rates. We have been more conservative on our credit approval. We used to have an approval rate of 35% and now we are approving just 25% of all the propositions for car financing that we receive. We are receiving today more than 3,000 propositions a day. On slide 12 we show that we reached R$ 665 million of auto loans, basically 73% is small vehicles; 14% moto and 13% heavy duty, like trucks. The average ticket is R$ 9,000. On page 13 you have the origination of new auto loans for the first quarter - we originated R$ 257 million, it is higher than the fourth quarter; but what we see is that with all the new things that we are doing: higher rates and more conservativess in the credit decision this quarter, the second of 08 will be originating the same amount than the first quarter of 07. The average duration here is 19 months. On slide 14 we speak about the funding and we always told investors that funding is the most important thing for a midsize bank. When everybody ask us how we will handle this challenge of growing the credit and we always say that what will limit the growth in our credit will be the funding and not the possibility to grow the credit. We see the market, the credit market in Brazil is growing, today we are reaching 39% of credit/gdp - this number is the same one that Brazil used to have in '95, so we are back to the numbers - credit/gdp - of It went down during the last 15 years; we reached 22% of the GDP and then going up. So it is a very new and competitive... and concentrate market, so to grow credit is not the biggest issue; the biggest issue is to manage to grow the funding. We reached R$ 3.1 billion in funding; 77% of that are term deposits and the rest is other borrowings slide Eurobonds and things like that. On slide 15 we show the positive gap that we have in our deposits. We use deposits to fund our middle market operations and the average duration of our middle market operation is 173 days and the average duration of those deposits is 264 days. The duration of our total funding is 338 days; it is very similar with the duration of our total credit. On slide 16 we have our rating. Our global rating remains BB- and now one slide 17 we can speak about the quality of the loan portfolio. 96.7% of our portfolio are rated A to C. We have 197% of over provision if we take the provision that we have and the loans due for more than 60 days. The total provisions that have on our total credit is R$ 95 million, which is 2.5% of our 4

5 total portfolio. The loans due and unpaid for more than 180 days remain below 1%. This 2.5% this still lower than our normal average provision, if you take the last year we had an average of 3%. Due to the huge liquidity that we saw during like hedge funds giving credits directly to clients - it was a very good liquidity; this number, the provision reduced, the quality increased and now what we see is not a deterioration, it is just coming back to a normality that used to be 3%. On slide 18 we show each one of the portfolios separately. The middle market has a 2.4% provision comparing to the last quarter 2.3, it is basically stable; the payroll also we have 2.3 this quarter comparing to 2.4 last quarter, it is stable; and the auto loans provision is in line with our expectation, increased from 2.1 to 3.2%. If we speak of a 4% loss we will have a provision of 6 to 7% with time. There is another way to show the good quality of our portfolio. On page 19 we were speaking here about our NPL, nonperforming loans due for more than 90 days. What we take here, if a client has one installment due and unpaid for more than 90 days we take the whole contract and the whole position of this client and then we divide it by the total portfolio. This NPL divided by the portfolio of the bank is 2.5% - last year it was around 2% and increased to 2.5%. The main reason of this increase is, of course, the auto loan that today is 3.9%. The payroll one year ago was 4.1% and now is 2.1%, showing a better control in the payroll. One slide 20 we have our efficiency ratio. We are very proud to manage not to increase the expenses during the first quarter. Last year we made many big investments, we had to increase our expenses because we needed to increase, to put the bank in another level. Many new areas were created to follow the growth in credit. Our personnel expenses for the first quarter was R$ 16 million; other administrative expenses R$ 50 million; so R$ 31 million our expenses for the first quarter, which was the same than the last quarter. Our commission expenses increased because of the increase in the credit portfolio and also the increase in our origination, but with that we managed to reduce even our... it reduced even more our already very good efficiency ratio, finishing the first quarter with 25.7% of efficiency ratio. On page 21 we show our capital structure. Daycoval has always had a very good and strong capital structure and this has always been very important and now I think it is clear why we have that. Our shareholder equity was R$ 1.5 billion; our BIS ratio 33%, we expect to finish the year around 25% of BIS ratio. But there is another ratio that shows how low-leveraged we are, it is the loan portfolio divided by equity, we have 2.5x loan book/equity, it is a very low leverage and this lets us in a much better situation than many other of our peers. 5

6 The IR department has been very ready and available to be in contact constantly with all our investors. We have been making many visits, road show and conference call, many a day. We managed to include Daycoval on the IVX index and it will start from next month. We have today many coverage, we approved our share buyback program last month and now we are approving our ADR Level I Program that will increase our liquidity. We have just published in our web site our annual report, there is a lot of good information there and everybody are invited to see. Thank you very much. Q&A Session Operator: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the Question and Answer session. If you have a question, please press the star (*) key, followed by the one (1) key on your touch-tone phone. If at any time you would like to remove yourself from the questioning queue, press star (*) two (2). Excuse me. Our first question comes from Mr. Victor Galliano with HSBC. Mr. Victor Galliano: Hi, good morning. A couple of questions, first on the asset quality, loan quality and the loan book. So in slide 19 you are defining here the maturity loans as more than 90 days; how different would this be if you looked at it in terms of more than 60 days we can just use the table on page 17, which has the D - H; would that be pretty representative of that do you have any breakdown data, division more than 60 days with you? And the other question... sorry, the other question relates to your assets and liabilities and what we are seeing at the moment, first of all on the liabilities side. What are you seeing in terms of cost of funding and access to funding? And of the asset side, how much of your loan book is fixed loans? Clearly it is repricing faster than your liabilities, but maybe you can tell us a bit about what is happening on the actual cost of funding side? Thank you. Mr. Dayan: Thank you Victor for your question. We can use and do the same chart for the 60 loans due for more than 60 days. The only difference is that for the retail side 60 days is not... even 90 days is still too short, because with auto loans you do not have enough time to repossess the car and sell and do everything. For the middle market we normally use the 60 days, it is a very good thing, but the picture will not be much different, we will see a very good improvement on the payroll, you see the auto loan going with the expectation, increasing until it will reach a normal amount and the bank is pretty much stable, with not many changes. You will not see difference with that. Regarding to the cost of funding, we see the increased costs of funding. Before the IPO our cost of our term deposits was 104% of the CDI; after that 103% and then it went up to 105% and now it is still going up. For us, since we do not assign those loans, we do not sell it, it is just term deposit is really a very marginal increase in the cost. It is not that there is no cost available... no 6

7 funds available, just we have the competition of the bigger banks that cannot go to the Eurobond market to issue bonds and also because of the requirements for their leasing companies, they are more demanding on the Eurobond... on the term deposits, sorry. So the good thing is that we do not expect this cost will reduce, but we do not see it increasing much more than where it is today. So there is still a lot of availability of funding. Our retail loans are fixed loans. A small part of it is hedge, but a big part is fixed. But since, as you said, we are re-pricing it every quarter with new and higher rates, we do not see a big problem there, it goes up and we are... the market is already expecting 200 to 300% increase on the base rate, so this is already priced and if it is a little bit higher we do not see a big problem there. Thank you. Mr. Galliano: thanks. Operator: Excuse me. Our next question comes from Ms. Natalia Cornfield from Dresdner Bank. Ms. Natalia Cornfield: Hello, congrats for the very good results. I have a couple of questions, the first given that the cost of funding in Brazil and also abroad has increased, I would like to know how you guys are expecting that to impact your profitability in 2008 and also given that you are maintaining your growth target for 2008 I would like to know a little bit more about your funding plans to meet this growth target. Mr. Dayan: Thank you Natalia. We see the cost of funding increasing during 2008, but just the cost of funding, we do not see it impacting our net income for the year, because we are re-pricing also of our loans and sometimes you can even re-price more than the increase in the cost of funding. So we are increasing the spread sometimes in our loan book, but all the cost of funding is re-price our credit loans. But we have a lot of good funding plans: we are issuing a Fidic of our car loans; we will start distributing it in the 10 days. Our branch that has been approved by the Brazilian Central Bank has this week been approved by the Cayman Islands Authority, the Monetary Authority, so we are ready to go to the market and issue an Eurobond, which is, despite the market that is closed, we have a lot of investors calling us and there is a demand for that and so we will start placing that, we think, in two weeks. So it is sometimes an expensive funding, but it is a longer-term funding and is very good to match our assets and liabilities. So we also have some multilateral agreement that we did the last year and we are doing and working in another one for this quarter. So with those plans we 7

8 think they are good enough to keep growing in the same way that we are expecting to. Ms. Cornfield: All right, so it is going to be a new Fidic; also a possible in Eurobond; and also more multilateral agreements? Mr. Dayan: Exactly, and also an increase in term deposit. If you see, we are managing to increase our term deposits with wealthy individuals and companies, it is growing a lot. It takes some time, but growing deposits also will help us increase our funding. Ms. Cornfield: Ok and just going back to the first question again. So you are being able to pass the increase in the cost of funding to your final consumers, is that correct? Mr. Dayan: Yes, that is correct; we are able to pass that. The demand for credit is still very strong, you see on the Central Bank numbers it is growing month after month, so there is a very good demand for credit, so we are able to pass this increase. Also we are having less competition from foreign banks; we do not see them anymore. Last year we even had some hedge funds doing credit directly, they are not there. We do not have any foreign bank working in credit in Brazil, so this is also another reason. All our clients are very aware of the international situation and then it is not so hard to increase our rates. Ms. Cornfield: All right great, thank you very much. Operator: Excuse me. Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder if you would like to pose a question, please press star (*), one (1). Excuse me. Our next question comes from the website and it is from Mr. Jones, from AIG Investments: What is your expectation for average ROE in 2008? Mr. Dayan: Since we are growing our credit portfolio, we are increasing our leverage, we had 19% ROE in the first quarter of this year. We see this number increasing and having a higher average ROE for the whole year. We do not have the exact number, but because we are increasing the leverage during the year we will see this number to increase. Thank you. Operator: Excuse me. Our next question comes from Mr. Saul Martinez from Bear Stearns. Mr. Saul Martinez: Hi good morning gentlemen. How concerned are you give with credit quality in the used auto segment? Your NPL ratio in the last two quarters has gone up quite considerably and you did talk about approval rates coming down. There is some concern in the industry about underwriting standards in that segment. How worried are you that going forward some of 8

9 these loans will cease and we might see an even greater increase in your uptake in our NPL ratio in that business? Mr. Dayan: We are always very concerned with everything, so we take that very seriously. We cannot not be concerned by that. But we try, we like this spread, we like the liquidity we are having. This increase in the last two quarters is expected, we know that it will increase; we know that the provision will go to 6%, 7%; we know that the loss must be around 4%, so the NPL must be 6, 7 and then with the car repossession and everything it will reduce to 4%. It is part of the business, we have been analyzing this business for a long time before starting, we are always looking with other banks to see if we are in the right average and we see that we are even better. So we are concerned, but we think we are ok with that. It is a good number and it is a very good reality and when we started in 2004 our payroll lending it happened the same thing, because we grow our portfolio, there is not enough time for the loan to be due and unpaid and then suddenly you see the NPL going up very fast until it gets a normal stability. So we know that this happens all the time when you start a new portfolio, it is part of the business. But more than that we know that from all our credit portfolio the only portfolio that is more related to the economic cycle is the auto loans. We wanted that, because we see in the long run very good fundamentals for Brazil; but we know also that if there is a recession and if things like that happen in Brazil this is the only sector of our credit portfolio that will be affected and that is why we need to be very concerned, watch very closely and to make money we need to take some risk and maybe this is the one that we are taking but... Mr. Martinez: Why did your approval, why did you decrease your approval rate? Mr. Dayan: Because in January, February, in January we were very concerned that the international volatility would affect Brazil. We had in mind that every crisis that happened during the last 15 years started somewhere in the world and suddenly you see a flight of capital in Brazil, you see the dollar growing, interest rates going up very fast and then panic in Brazil. So we said maybe it will happen, we started taking many strong decisions to reduce the growth in credit. The middle market portfolio is something that is very easy to control, so in February our portfolio of middle-market was lower than December, it even reduced; and then starting March we changed our minds and it started going up again. 9

10 On the auto loans it is a long-term operation, it takes longer for our decision to affect our origination, so first of all we reduced our credit approval and then we increased the rate and that is why now, in April, we will have a lower origination than March, despite that we are having a almost 30% stronger volume because the market is growing. So in March we realized that yes, we have a very big external crisis, but for the first time it will not affect maybe so fast Brazil; we will have growth in GDP this year; the situation is ok; our clients are ok; we saw the FED reducing the interest rates very fast; and we understood also that the subprime was not a credit problem, it is a problem of investment banking, it is a problem harder to understand, it is everything but a credit problem. It is not the delinquency that increased, is the leverage that was too high and we do not have the leverage in Brazil. The sales car that we are having today is the same one of 10 years ago; we are going back to where we were 10 years ago. The credit in Brazil that is growing is going back also to where we were 15 years ago regarding the GDP. So with all that we thought yes, we can keep growing in the same rate, we have still very low leverage compared to most of the other banks and this gives us some tranquility to keep growing and feel with all the growth we want we will finish the year with 25% BIS ratio, which is still very high. Mr. Martinez: Ok great, just on that last point one final question. If you do meet tour financial targets when would you anticipate having to replenish your capital? I think you said in the past you wanted to maintain at least 20% BIS ratio? Mr. Dayan: We never had below 20%, but we want to be higher than 17%. By end of next year we will have to increase our capital if everything remains the same to keep the average low leverage bank. Mr. Martinez: Ok, thank you very much. Operator: Excuse me. Our next question comes from Mr. Bradford Jones with RMB. Mr. Bradford Jones: Hi. I wonder whether you could give us an idea of what is happening with commission rates origination with different origination in auto and payroll loans? Is it trending down or trending up with competition? Mr. Dayan: Thank you. The commissions for auto loans are very much stable, it is still 3% commission, 3.2% commission that we pay, it is a very low cost and there is still a lot of competition, this is the main reason why it is a very low commission. 10

11 On the payroll we are seeing a decrease in commission because the commission went too high, most of the banks started having their own distribution platform, so they started using less and less correspondents; so what happened is that they started reducing the commission. So we are having a very nice reduction in commission, but it is followed by a reduction in rates that we are charging. So there is no change in the spread. Mr. Jones: Ok, thanks and lastly could you take us through the reason for an ADR program, given that you are not looking to issuing a new share? Mr. Dayan: Yes, we think there are many people that would like to buy our share but without going through swaps or having to sell dollar, buy reais and then buy our shares. So we think that it could be an opportunity for some people that are not so qualified investors and on the long run for the next time that we will be issuing a share it will help to have a history in the market. It is nothing that would change our price; there is also no cost for us. It is just something that will increase maybe the liquidity. Mr. Jones: Ok thanks. Operator: Excuse me. Our next question comes from Mr. Andrew Jones with AIG Investments. Mr. Andrew Jones: Hi good morning. Just a quick question on your administrative expenses. I think the expectation was for 10 stores, 10 branches of growth this year I just wanted to make sure that that was still on track and then just get your estimations for total non-interest expenses for 2008 as well in light of the growth in commissions and managers you are hiring. Thanks. Mr. Dayan: Ok, thank you for the question. We still are expecting to open 10 new branches this year, since we are still growing the ones that we opened last year - we are not rushing to do that at this moment. Our branch, just to remember, is a very low cost branch - just front office - and it is very cheap. So this is not the reason why we are not doing and this is also not the reason why we increased our cost last year. But we are already looking for some places to start opening one or two this quarter. But still we keep the idea that we want to finish the year with 35 branches and we expect our personnel and administrative expenses to grow by 25% during the year, something around that. Our total expenses with the commission it will depend with the growth in our origination, it is something that we expect to keep, to have the same growth that we had this first quarter and to keep in the same rate of growth in the next quarter. Mr. Jones: Great, thanks. 11

12 Operator: Excuse me. Our next question comes from Mr. Victor Galliano from HSBC. Mr. Galliano: Yes, just a follow-up question here on what you were talking about regarding the expenses. What do you see as a kind of target efficiency ratio for the full year and also looking in terms of NPL ratio do you have a feeling for where this could go at year-end as well? Thank you. Mr. Dayan: Our target on the efficiency ratio is to be below 30%, so somewhere below 30% we would be happy with that. We know that 25% is good because it shows our efficiency we are, but sometimes you need to do some investment, hire more people and things that will increase, but we want it to be below 30% and we think an average of 3% our NPL is a normality, we do not know if we are going to reach at the end of the year, but this is what we expect in our business plan - we work with an average NPL of 3%. We expect 2% for the payroll; 3% for the middle; and 4% for the auto loans. Mr. Galliano: Ok and just a quick follow-up if I may on the expenses again. We have seen them grow; we have seen them grow 54% - the core operating expenses - on a year on year basis. Would you say that in terms of investments in new people and in branches in this first quarter have you done in a quarter what you want to do in the year or have you done more than a quarter? In other words, is this kind of investment going to be trending down and can we expect this growth rate in core expenses to slow as we move further into the year on a year on year basis? Mr. Dayan: I think that to understand that better you need to take aside the commission and speaking about the personnel expenses and administrative of expenses last year we had a growth of 35% for the whole year. It was 50% for personnel and 25% for administrative, an average of 35%. This year those two together we expect 25%. The commission is an operational cost, regards to the origination and everything, so we need to understand that we need to take that aside. We did everything that we wanted in this quarter; just the middle market was a little bit lower than we anticipated. But you can understand that we did everything that we wanted and we just managed not to increase our expenses because of all the investment we did during last year. It is not that we are not going to increase for next quarter, because as I said we expect an average for the year of 25%. The commission will grow together with our growth in origination. If you reduce more and more in the payroll for example, it will be followed by a reduction also in rates that we charge, so it will go together. We should put that as a reduction in credit, like credit expenses. 12

13 Mr. Galliano: Ok great, thank you. Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you would like to pose a question, please press star (*) one (1). This concludes today s question and answer session. Mr. Dayan, at this time you may proceed with your closing statements, sir. Mr. Dayan: Thank you very much for everybody, if someone has any further question we are always here to answer and we will be doing that a lot, just to conclude that we are very happy with the first quarter and we want to keep like that. Thank you very much, until next time. Operator: That does conclude our Banco Daycoval s conference call for today. Thank you very much for your participation and have a good day. 13