MONEY BOX LIVE. Presenter: PAUL LEWIS. TRANSMISSION: 26 th MARCH RADIO 4

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1 THIS TRANSCRIPT IS ISSUED ON THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IT IS TAKEN FROM A LIVE PROGRAMME AS IT WAS BROADCAST. THE NATURE OF LIVE BROADCASTING MEANS THAT NEITHER THE BBC NOR THE PARTICIPANTS IN THE PROGRAMME CAN GUARANTEE THE ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION HERE. MONEY BOX LIVE Presenter: PAUL LEWIS TRANSMISSION: 26 th MARCH RADIO 4 LEWIS: Hello. Pension freedom has been promised by the Government from April next year. Whether you ve saved a lot or a little in your pension pot, you ll be able to do what you like with all of it from a new car to paying off your mortgage to buying an annuity. Once you re 55, it will be your choice. Though a quarter of the money will be tax free, the rest whether taken as a lump sum or an income will be taxable. But with the balance, you can do what you like. That s next April, Until then, the present complex rules are being relaxed or rather all the limits are being changed to make them more generous. From tomorrow and this is very roughly speaking if you have up to 30,000 saved, you can probably take it as a cash lump sum. Part of that is taxable, and if you have more even then you may be able to do so. So today Money Box Live takes your questions on pension freedom. Whether you want to blow 265,900 on a Lamborghini or use it to buy an index linked annuity of 8,654 a year, why not call Money Box Live now? With me today to answer your questions: Michelle Cracknell, who s Chief Executive of the Pensions Advisory Service; Mark Meldon is Director of independent financial advisers RC Gray & Company Limited; and Tom McPhail is Head of Pensions Research at Hargreaves Lansdown. Our first question is from Anita who s in Derby. Anita, your question for the panel? ANITA: Hello. I m 69 years of age now and I was self-employed when I was working part-time and I took out a self-employment pension in About 5 years ago, I asked for you know a quotation for it, and I didn t bother taking it through. I decided to just leave it but to stop paying into it. But unfortunately it s gone down by 1

2 almost 4,000 since then and I m just thinking Last week, only last week I contacted my pension provider to ask for another quotation and it s actually in the post, and then of course the Chancellor s announced this about us being able to get the whole lot. Well one of my questions you ve just answered, which is I didn t know whether it would be taxable for the whole lot of that or whether I d still be able to get 25%. LEWIS: Yeah, you can still get the 25% tax free. What s your essential question, Anita? ANITA: Well I wanted to know also what about I ve got a very small pension of 2,000 to 3,000 - if I could latch it onto the pension that I ve been quoted of 47,000. LEWIS: Okay. ANITA: There s another then situation where I ve heard about drawdown if you have 50,000 or more. I just wanted to know which would be best for me, to get the most out of it. LEWIS: You want to know what your options are ANITA: Yes. LEWIS: under the new rules that start tomorrow and whether you should wait until next April when things are a lot easier. ANITA: Yes, taking the chance it might go down more even. LEWIS: Of course. Let s start with Michelle Cracknell from the Pensions Advisory Service. CRACKNELL: Well let s just start off with the type of contract that you ve got, Anita. If you took it out in 1983, it would be what we describe as a retirement annuity contract. Now those contracts sometimes had really valuable guaranteed annuity rates, so the first thing I would check is in your policy document and also with your 2

3 provider, are there special guaranteed annuity rates on the contract? LEWIS: And just explain what that means. CRACKNELL: Guaranteed annuity rates in 1983 would have provided you with a promised conversion of fund into income and in 1983 they were very generous compared with today s interest rates. LEWIS: So today you can get say 6%-ish, maybe a bit less; then you might have got double that 10%, 12%? CRACKNELL: At age 69, Anita, it might be 11%, 12% conversion rates. LEWIS: 12%. So that s well worth having. It s worth remembering Mark Meldon, isn t it, that if you ve got guaranteed annuity rates all this bad publicity about annuities may not apply to what you have? MELDON: Absolutely. And it s critical that people study their policy documentation because normally in that you ll see a table of the annuity rate applying at set ages. I ve come across 16%, 18%, 20% return on capital. You just can t match that on a risk free basis anywhere else. LEWIS: So it s worth taking the annuity in that case and not worrying about all the things that the Chancellor announced last week? MELDON: Absolutely. LEWIS: Okay. And Tom McPhail, what s your view on Anita s position? McPHAIL: So, Anita, it sounds to me like you might benefit from getting some advice from an independent financial adviser just to help you firm up your choices. You do have the choice to go and buy an annuity and, as has been said, possibly on very preferential terms. You will have the option to just draw money out of that pension fund, but what works best for you is not something we can tell you here and now. These new flexibilities are available to you. They re not necessarily; it doesn t necessarily mean you should actually use them. And then one final point that little 3

4 pot of money you ve got, you can roll that into the big pot of money. That might be easier to manage it all in one place. LEWIS: So you can put it all in the same place. Okay well you can go to a financial adviser, which ultimately will cost you some money. Or of course, Michelle, you can get free advice from the Pensions Advisory Service, but that s more guidance about the rules rather than actual individual personal advice. CRACKNELL: That s right, we ll provide you with guidance. But we ll do the guidance on your personal situation, Anita, so if you ve got your policy document in front of you like Mark was saying, we can show you the bit that you need to look at. LEWIS: Okay, well thanks very much for your call, Anita. It raises a lot of interesting issues. I hope that was helpful. John is next. He s in Luton in Bedfordshire. John, your question? JOHN: Oh good afternoon. I have an existing SIPP, the fund of which is about 250,000, and I m taking drawdown of 24,000 per annum at the moment and I m paying fees of around 5,000 for the service of that. What I m wondering is what the effect of the Budget is and whether I m in fact allowed to take any of the existing capital out any or all of it or would it be advisable to increase the drawdown and gradually wind the capital sum up? LEWIS: Okay, so a SIPP is - a Self-Invested Personal Pension it stands for - it s a pension that you have flexibility over. JOHN: Yes. LEWIS: Tom McPhail? McPHAIL: Well you ve got the money in a tax exempt fund now, so don t draw the money out unless you need it because it s growing tax free at the moment and that s very valuable. So one question is what would you do with the money if you drew it out? By next April you will have the freedom to take as much money out as you like all of it in one go if you want, but you will be paying tax on it. From tomorrow the drawdown income limit will increase, but you may not get access to that higher 4

5 income limit immediately. You will have to wait until your next policy anniversary before the new slightly more generous income limit will apply to you. But by next April 2015, if you want to you will be able to draw as much money out of that fund as you like. JOHN: Right. So my anniversary at the moment is 18 th April. McPHAIL: Right, at which point your income limit will go up. LEWIS: So it will rise quite soon. MELDON: It will rise. McPHAIL: And then the question is whether your existing drawdown provider can actually deliver that for you because not all of them will necessarily be ready in time. LEWIS: And it ll rise by about a quarter, won t it? That s the figure. McPHAIL: Correct. LEWIS: And Mark Meldon, fees of (I work it out) 2% to run a SIPP scheme. Is that reasonable? MELDON: It sounds astonishingly expensive to me. I mean you should be able to run a SIPP in drawdown for around about 1850 to 1,000 a year for the administration. Are you including the investment costs in the 5,000 figure? JOHN: I m including the management of the fund and the advice from the financial planner, which comprises a two yearly visit and a discussion of my options. LEWIS: It does strike me though, John, that you re taking 24,000 out of your hard earned savings and your SIPP is taking 5,000. That seems rather a big chunk compared with what you re getting to me. JOHN: The same thought has occurred to me actually. LEWIS: (laughs) I bet it has. 5

6 MELDON: Maybe it s time to change adviser. LEWIS: Other SIPP providers are available. I think it may be worth looking at that. But, as we ve said, you get that freedom later. And these complicated GAD rules a bit of jargon that we ll all be very glad to forget next April, I think we ll talk about them more in a second with an . But is that helpful, John? JOHN: Yes that is, yes. LEWIS: Good. Thank you very much. JOHN: So from 2015 then, I can take out whatever I like? Is that LEWIS: From April, yes. McPHAIL: And remember you will be paying income tax on any withdrawals. LEWIS: Yes and of course if that goes above the basic rate limit, which will be slightly higher then JOHN: (over) Right, so I ll be paying higher rate tax probably? CRACKNELL: Yeah. LEWIS: (over) 41,865 or something. You ll be paying higher rate tax on some of it. So it may be worth taking it out in bits, year by year. CRACKNELL: Correct, yes, that s right. John, if you do take it out and keep yourself into the basic rate tax band (because the capital will be measured against the income tax allowance), so that will keep you in the basic rate if you do it over a period of a number of years. LEWIS: Yeah, okay. John, thanks very much for your call. We mentioned GAD rules. GAD stands for Government Actuaries Department and it limits the amount that you can take in many circumstances out of a fund in drawdown. And we ve had an about it from Vivienne who says in West Wycombe who says, I already have a small drawdown pension paid quarterly. The amount I can take is limited by 6

7 these GAD rules. When the changes come into operation next year, will the GAD limits end? McPHAIL: Well we have to wait for the Treasury to finish their consultation on this, but our expectation on what we know today is that from April 2015 these GAD limits will simply cease to exist and you will be free to take as much of your drawdown pot out in one go as you like. All of it if you want. LEWIS: Worth saying though, Michelle, that that s all very well you take it all out this year; next year you re destitute. I mean one purpose of these rules that we all you know are probably glad to see the back of is that it does ensure you do at least spread your money out over what might be your entire life. CRACKNELL: That s right, and I think it s important the point that s already been mentioned a couple of times is to match your pension to actually what your needs and income are. So whilst the Government has made this relaxation, it s still important for individuals to think what income do I actually need and is there any way that I can take that most tax efficiently? LEWIS: Yes. And Mark Meldon, I suppose some things people might want to do with it, given that they have got to pay tax on a chunk of it they might want to pay off an interest only mortgage, for example, because that s going to be a growing problem over the next few years, isn t it? MELDON: Yes, it certainly is. I think people need to remember though that the pension pot itself is a pretty much tax exempt environment and you need to be very careful about taking money out of that environment into something that s going to be taxable. You ve got to do the balancing act very carefully. LEWIS: Yes taxable and indeed taxed in most cases, so yes that is an important thought. Well thanks for your , Vivienne. And we go to our next caller who is Geoffrey who s in Manchester. Geoffrey, your question? GEOFFREY: Yes, good afternoon. I m just taking out an annuity with Standard Life. Actually I did it last week. The pot is only for 10,000, but they offered me 500 7

8 a year, which I didn t think was very good. It was guaranteed for 10 years and I m just wondering now whether to take the whole 10,000 out under this new Government thing, but obviously that would be next year? LEWIS: Okay well it may be this year, but it may be too late. It depends. Michelle? CRACKNELL: Right, have you actually signed the paperwork and sent it across to Standard Life? GEOFFREY: Well what they said was that they could do it over the phone. CRACKNELL: Right, I would pause. GEOFFREY: Now it was only last week and I think they said there was something like 30 days rethinking on it. CRACKNELL: Yeah, that s right. I would pause for a moment. For those people who are in the process of taking out an annuity, if you have actually signed on the dotted line you do have a 30 day cancellation period to stop the contract. GEOFFREY: That s right. CRACKNELL: However in your state - you know obviously you haven t signed on the dotted line yet - I think you just need to sit back and think about it. I mean a couple of things which aren t the new rules, but what s available to you, is you could take 25% of the fund as a tax free cash sum GEOFFREY: Yes, that s right. CRACKNELL: leaving you with 7,500. GEOFFREY: Well the reason I didn t do that was because I don t need the money, you see. CRACKNELL: So one question is you don t have to take your pension pot at all. You could, as we ve been talking about, just roll it over, keep it in the tax free environment of your pension fund, and then as from next year you ll be able to draw 8

9 25% as a tax free cash sum and then take the rest of it as and when you need it. But even when you reach the normal retirement age under these contracts, you don t have to take the fund. You could keep it going. GEOFFREY: That s right. Well I have already kept it going for a while because I ve got another one that was due and that s been rolling over. But what they said was because that was a guaranteed one, the Standard Life one couldn t be put into it, so it s stood on its own. LEWIS: Right, so that s a guaranteed annuity perhaps. GEOFFREY: Yes. LEWIS: Well, Geoffrey, it seems you are within the cancellation rules and you haven t had any money yet, so you can probably cancel or at least think about it cancel it and think about it till the new rules begin tomorrow. But Tom McPhail, there are some problems with cancellation, aren t there? McPHAIL: Yes. So there are restrictions on when you cancel it. You should have at least 30 days. LEWIS: Well firstly and some have extended it to 60. But even within that period, if you ve already had the lump sum McPHAIL: You then have to unwind it. You ve got to pay the lump sum back. If it s within the 30 days, you should GEOFFREY: (over) I haven t had a lump sum. I didn t get a lump sum. McPHAIL: So that shouldn t be a problem for you. My one other point I d like to make on that is if you are going to buy an annuity, don t do it before you ve shopped around and made sure you ve got the best possible deal. And it may be Standard Life was the best deal for you, but I would urge you and anyone listening not to buy an annuity before you ve shopped around for the best possible deal. LEWIS: Yes because they do vary and they change and they ll probably be changing 9

10 even more over the next few months, won t they? McPHAIL: Absolutely. LEWIS: And the Money Advice Service has a comparison website and of course you can go to an adviser who will do the same job for you. Thanks for your call, Geoffrey. It sounds as if you at least are in time. Can I just raise one other point that many people have raised and I m not sure we ve got a question directly coming up on it? What about people who are beyond the cancellation period? Mark Meldon, is it just completely too late? MELDON: Yes. LEWIS: They can t go back and unwind? MELDON: No, no they can t, and that s that. It s just unfortunate timing but you ve got what you ve got. LEWIS: Well, as the minister said to me on Saturday, if there s a cliff edge there s always someone the wrong side of it and I m afraid that is the case if you ve got it already. Let me just read this that s just come in from Margaret. She hasn t heard anyone mention the effect of what happens to the provision for a spouse following the death of a partner if someone takes all the lump sum instead of getting an annuity. With an annuity of course, you can provide for your spouse to have some once you die, but if you take it all out obviously that s it. What do you think? Is that an important issue, Michelle? CRACKNELL: It s a really important issue and it s why couples need to sit down together and work out their overall retirement picture because if you take out the tax free lump sum and then the rest of the fund as capital sums in one go or in other goes, it s gone. And when it s gone, it has gone, and so there ll be no provision for spouses. And with the changes in the state pension coming in in 2016, it s really important that people look at their overall position and try to work out the income they need throughout retirement not just for themselves but also for any dependents. LEWIS: And let me raise another issue before we go to our next call, David, who s 10

11 patiently waiting. But before we go to him, let me raise one other issue. This is from Murrell (ph) who says they re disabled and if you take your pension as a lump sum does that mean it will end your care package because you ll then have money in the bank? McPHAIL: It will then potentially be assessed, yes absolutely, so that is something you have to take into consideration. LEWIS: And the Prime Minister I think made that quite clear in a discussion the other day, didn t he? Okay let s go to the next call now. David is in Surrey. Sorry to keep you waiting, David. What s your question? DAVID: Hello, good afternoon gentlemen. My question is this. I m currently working. I m 56 this year and I ve built up two very large pension pots from two companies that I worked for previously, two separate companies. And my question is can I take out the 25% lump sum from both of the pensions that I ve built up? LEWIS: Michelle? MELDON: Yes. LEWIS: Or Mark. CRACKNELL: Yes, that s absolutely correct. I mean I guess the first question, David, is do you know what type of pension funds they were? Were they final salary schemes? DAVID: They were, yes, and they built up quite huge amounts of You know there s quite a substantial pot in both of them. CRACKNELL: So one thing to look at is what rate they re converting the pension into a lump sum balance. But basically from each of the entitlements, there will be 25% of the effective value of that pension will be available as a tax free cash sum. DAVID: That s great. That s the answer I ve got. And also just on the other point is so, therefore, with the rest of the balance which again is still quite a substantial 11

12 amount on both of the pensions that would then remain can that balance just sit and I can just sort of draw down from that, paying whatever it is on the tax rate at the time, over the next 5, 10 years or whatever I want? CRACKNELL: If MELDON: (over) You d very unlikely be allowed Sorry. LEWIS: Mark Meldon? MELDON: You d very unlikely be allowed to do that under the scheme rules. Most of the changes we re talking about affect money purchase schemes and not final salary schemes. You have to remember these so-called gold-plate schemes are called that for a reason and you need to look very carefully whether firstly you should take any cash from the final salary schemes at all because if you take cash you re going to reduce pension, or are you better off having a higher pension? You re only 56. You ll probably live another 30 years, which is a long time, and you ll need income in retirement. It doesn t matter if you haven t got very much capital it s nice to have some but as long as you ve got enough income. And bearing in mind income from a final salary scheme will go up in payments. That s why the pots are so large because the costs of providing the pensions is extraordinarily high. LEWIS: (over) It goes up with inflation. Okay, thanks very much for that, David. I hope that was helpful to you. And we ve had a couple of s, both from teachers, about AVCs, Additional Voluntary Contributions, where you have a final salary scheme which pays you a pension related to your pay, but you can also pay into one of these AVCs. And they ve both got pots of different amounts one s 100,000, one s more than 30,000. And the question is and I fear there isn t an easy answer are those AVCs covered by the new freedoms that were announced in the Budget? McPHAIL: In principle, they may be. So if they re money purchase AVCs as opposed to additional years final salary pensions, then potentially the pension scheme should be able to let you use these new income withdrawal freedoms, but it s going to be subject to them changing their scheme rules. 12

13 LEWIS: Yes well of course extra years means you get a pension as if you d been paying in for longer and that can be more worthwhile. But the AVCs, Michelle? CRACKNELL: Yeah just picking up on the point that Tom made is it is dependent upon the AVC schemes changing their rules in order to match the legislation. So all of this is changing to the regulations, but schemes do need to change their rules. MELDON: The Teachers AVC Scheme is actually run by Prudential, the money purchase side, and it might enable them to take most of the AVC pot as cash thus preserving the main pension benefit from the teachers pension scheme. LEWIS: Right. And I did talk to the Treasury about this and it seems what s going to happen is part of their consultation, so we ll know more next April. So there isn t an easy answer, I m afraid, to John and Ray who ed about that, and we ve had a number of others. Let s go to another call now. Stephen is in Malvern in Worcestershire. Stephen, your question? STEPHEN: Hello. There s been a lot of discussion about what happens when you take your pension. I want to ask what happens when your pension ends or in plain language when you die. At present if you re drawing down pension and then die while you are over 75, your fund has to go either to a dependent such as a spouse or to a charity or else it becomes subject to a heavy tax penalty. Will that still be a danger for pensioners after age 75 or indeed could it be a means of avoiding tax for people who ve got a large fund? LEWIS: Tom? McPHAIL: Well they need to look at this and we don t have the rules on this yet. Our expectation is that they will probably change these rules. My guess is they might change it to a 40% tax charge for pension funds on death that haven t been drawn on, but we re going to have to wait and see what HMRC and Treasury between them cook up on this one. STEPHEN: Your guess would be that it s equivalent of inheritance tax in other words? 13

14 McPHAIL: Correct. That s where I guess they will go, but we re going to have to wait and see what they come up with. LEWIS: They re also consulting, speaking of 75, on whether you should be able to carry on paying into a pension beyond 75 McPHAIL: (over)and getting tax relief on contributions. LEWIS: and getting tax relief on the contributions. So that s another thing that might change after the consultation comes back, which will be in probably 3 months or something like that, and then new laws and then freedom day some time in April McPHAIL: Watch this space, Stephen. STEPHEN: Right, thank you. LEWIS: (laughs) Indeed listen to this programme. I m sure we ll be coming back to it on several occasions. But thanks for your call, Stephen. And we re going to another call now, also in Malvern. I think from Mark Mark Mannering White. What s your question? MARK: Hello yes, good afternoon. I have a small business making and distributing valve amplifiers and I have two pension pots. One is with Cleric and Medical that was a pension linked one as they called it back in the early 80s, which is sitting there quite full. But I also have a small one that s from when I went out, contracted out, and that s worth about 13, and I was wondering if I could withdraw that and actually put it into my new business and use it as a capital injection to buy stock? LEWIS: Michelle? CRACKNELL: Mark, that s a really good question. I mean, first of all, before these rules change, there is the opportunity through small self-administered pension schemes and self-invested pension schemes to actually use your pension fund to invest in the business either by buying the property or by loaning money to the pension fund. So there s already existing things you could do and they re quite 14

15 specialist and we would recommend that you go and speak to an adviser about how you do that. MARK: Right. CRACKNELL: The second part of it is yes there are new opportunities of actually extracting the money out of the pension fund that come into play from April, but, as we ve already said on this programme, you will pay tax as soon as the money comes out of the pension fund. McPHAIL: And if you want to take the whole lot out, you re probably going to have to wait until next April in order to get access to all of that money. LEWIS: April Mark? MARK: The only part I want to get at really is the small contracted out part, which is a small proportion. It s only about sort of 15% or less than 15% or 10% of my whole pension fund as it s a different scheme. Can I do that and that s then not taxable because it s a small amount? McPHAIL: Well it will still be taxable even if you re using the small pots rule. Important point to make a quarter of that is tax free, the balance is still taxable. But currently to use the small pots rules, you have to be 60. MELDON: That s true. LEWIS: Yes and that will be 55 from next April. There won t be a small pots rule McPHAIL: (over) So, Mark, you may still have to wait until April 2015 to get at this money. LEWIS: Yes because you re 57. Thanks very much for your call, Mark. And I m going to go straight to Ken. Briefly Ken because we ve been talking about taxable and you want to ask about that. KEN: Ah yes, hello. What my query is - I have very low income, well below the personal allowance, so I don t pay income tax. Now what my query is, is if I draw 15

16 down pension, that s actually drawing down pension income over and above taking out the lump sum but my total income is still below the personal allowance. Does that mean that I won t actually have to pay any tax on it? LEWIS: Michelle? CRACKNELL: Ken, that s absolutely correct. If your income is below the personal allowance, you don t pay tax on it. If however you decide to take a higher level of income under the new rules or in fact decide to take the rest of the pot under the new rules from April 2015, or maybe immediately depending on how much is involved, that might push you into a tax bracket that you currently are not in. KEN: Right, just to check so it does just depend on the amount? It s not at all connected to what percentage of my pot I m taking out or anything? MELDON: No it s not, no. CRACKNELL: Correct. KEN: Oh right. Yes that s good news. Thank you very much. LEWIS: So the first quarter is tax free and the rest becomes part of your taxable income. But if your income is too low to pay tax, you don t pay tax. But, as we said earlier, Mark Meldon, if it goes above what will be 41,865, then you want to be careful you pay higher rate tax. MELDON: Yes and if you ve got an even bigger pot, you could become a 45% taxpayer. LEWIS: If it s over 150,000 you take out. So stage the take-outs for that reason. MELDON: Yes, you can phase it over several years and that s a very wise approach. LEWIS: Okay, thanks for your call Ken. And I ve had an from David Smith who says, Pensioners like myself may look on their pension pots as something they can just draw income down, but if they re large are they at risk if the person looking after them goes bust? Something that hasn t happened, but I suppose could. What are 16

17 the rules on that? Michelle? CRACKNELL: There s a number of different protections that an individual has. If they ve got a contract, there is the Financial Services Compensation Scheme that pays up to 50,000 of the value of the pot. You only get 90% back if the payments are not being made out of the pot. If you are in pension, then you would get 100% back. If you re in an occupational company pension scheme and the company goes bust, then you may be covered under the Pension Protection Fund. LEWIS: And Tom McPhail, what about annuities? People have said if annuity providers are going to be selling fewer and fewer annuities, could they be in financial trouble - what about the annuity I ve already got? McPHAIL: And the Financial Conduct Authority set pretty onerous and pretty strict solvency requirements on insurance companies. So even if they were to stop writing annuities dead tomorrow and wrote no new business, they should still have enough capital to meet all their existing liabilities, so it should not be a cause for concern to existing investors. LEWIS: Okay, well that s useful to know. And I m just going to read one final I think from Matthew. Matthew started work in the 90s. He s got six separate pension pots. And as he approaches 40, he says, I m concerned I may be paying too much in the way of charges and he s tried to merge them. Now some are money purchase, defined contribution - the sort of pension pot schemes. Others actually are salary related. Mark Meldon, what should he think of doing about merging pots? MELDON: This is quite a difficult area. He does need to pay for proper advice because an IFA with the right qualifications and experience would fully analyse the benefits that the existing contracts make and then do a comparison between leaving them where they are and consolidating in one arrangement. LEWIS: So it seems neater, but it might actually not be the best thing? MELDON: It could be very disadvantageous. Yes, it could be a big mistake. LEWIS: Alright. Well we are going to have to end it there with many, many s 17

18 and calls unanswered for which I apologise. But my thanks to Mark Meldon of RC Gray; Michelle Cracknell, Pensions Advisory Service; Tom McPhail from Hargreaves Lansdown. And thanks to you for all your calls and s. As I said, many, many things we haven t been able to answer. The Pensions Advisory Service offers free impartial advice and they re having a live web chat tonight between 7 and 9 pm. There s a contact detail on our website, bbc.co.uk/moneybox, where you can also find out more, listen again, read a transcript in a few days. No Money Box on Saturday thanks to a Radio 4 character invasion, but Ruth Alexander s here to take your calls on Money Box Live next Wednesday afternoon. 18

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