Kotak Institutional Equities Investor Update Conference Call for United Phosphorus Limited & Advanta Limited

Transcription

1 Kotak Institutional Equities Investor Update Conference Call for United Phosphorus Limited & Advanta Limited MANAGEMENT: MODERATOR: MR. JAI SHROFF CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, UPL LIMITED MR. SAGAR KAUSHIK CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER-GLOBAL BUSINESS, UPL LIMITED MR. RAJENDRA DARAK GROUP- CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, UPL LIMITED MR. ANAND VORA CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, UPL LIMITED MR. NITIN KOLHATKAR VICE PRESIDENT-FINANCE, UPL LIMITED MR. ASHISH NARKAR GENERAL MANAGER-FINANCE, UPL LIMITED MR. CLAUDIO TORRES CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, ADVANTA LIMITED MR. MANOJ GUPTA CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, ADVANTA LIMITED MR. MOHAN LAL INSTITUTIONAL EQUITIES- KOTAK SECURITIES Page 1 of 12

2 Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Investor Update Conference Call for UPL & Advanta. As a reminder, all participants lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing * then 0 on your Touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Mohan Lal. Thank you and over to you, sir. Mohan Lal: Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Kotak Institutional Equities, I welcome you all to this conference call. I am pleased to note the managements of UPL and Advanta to discuss various aspects of the amalgamation. From UPL management we have with us Mr. Jai Shroff CEO; Mr. Sagar Kaushik COO-Global Business; Mr. Rajendra Darak Group-CFO; Mr. Anand Vora CFO; Mr. Nitin Kolhatkar VP (Finance) and Mr. Ashish Narkar GM (Finance). From Advanta side we have Mr. Claudio Torres CEO and Mr. Manoj Gupta CFO. I now handover the call to Mr. Anand Vora for his initial remarks and then we can open the floor for Q& A. Over to you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, good day and thank you for joining us on the call. As you know this morning, the board of directors of UPL and Advanta unanimously approved Advanta s merger with UPL. We wanted to update you on the details of the proposed merger and the benefits of the merger for UPL, Advanta and the combined entity. UPL as you are aware is India s leading agro-chemical company and is 11 th largest agrochemical company in the world with operational presence in more than 40 countries. Advanta is a leading international field crop and vegetable seeds company with operational presence in more than 6 countries. I will now move to the exchange ratio and I will give you some details about the same. For every share in Advanta; Advanta shareholders will receive one UPL equity share and three preference shares worth Rs. 30 in UPL. The preference shares will be convertible in to UPL equity shares any time up to 18 months, it will carry an annual dividend of 5%. For every 471 preference shares of UPL the shares will be converted in to 10 UPL equity shares effectively implying that every Advanta share will receive approximately 1.06 UPL shares upon conversion. Advanta GDR holders holding one GDR will receive 1.06 GDR in UPL. So once the merger is approved by the various authorities, by the shareholders, the Gujarat High Court; UPL will be issuing million new equity shares and million new preference shares having face value of Rs. 10 based on Advanta s shareholding pattern as on November 30, 2015 assuming full conversion of FCCB and existing ESOPs. With this merger, UPL expands its product portfolio to cover the agri value chain and provide UPL with an opportunity to engage directly with the farmers. Advanta benefits from a strong Page 2 of 12

3 global distribution network of UPL and will be able to fast track its growth plans on the back of strong balance sheet of the combined entity. UPL also expects to achieve an annual cost saving of Rs. 90 crores through the merger. The merger will result in excess to newer territories, enhance coverage in existing markets, leveraging channel capabilities and improve customer access through early and direct engagement. The merger intends to achieve larger product portfolio economies of scale, efficiency, optimization of logistic and distribution network and other related economies. The combined business would also benefit from the resources strength to carry on consolidated operations through optimal utilization of resources avoidance of duplication and better financial strength. That is the update on the merger and we will be happy to take question and answers. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. The first question is from the line of Prashant Kanru from Karvy Stock Broking. Please go ahead. So what your saying is there will be an addition of around Rs crores because of the preference shares and the remaining would be for other normal adding up as well as swap ratio, right? Yes, for every one share of Advanta, there will be one equity share of UPL and 0.06 additional equity shares, which currently would be issued by way of preference shares, which will get converted into equity shares. Okay, so I mean like if we just break it up, like there are around 2.4 crores FCCBs yet to be converted, right? That is right. And close to 4.6 crores odd of UPL Holding as of September 30, BSE filing will be cancelled? That is right. So it would lead to around 5.4 crores shares plus another 2.4 crores for the FCCBs? So that would be approximately 7.8 crores? That is right, crores. Okay, crores and to that we will be adding another 0.38 crores of preference shares? That is right. Page 3 of 12

4 So that would be around 8.12 odd crores? That is right. What was the valuation multiple that was given for Advanta like in terms of EBITDA multiples or book multiples based on which this swap ratio was arrived at? Well they have used essentially two methodologies of valuation and assigned certain weightages to them to arrive at the valuation ratio and that is the DCF method, and then they have considered volume weighted average price over the last 60 days. Volume weighted average price? We have retained, as you are aware, BSR to do the valuation and the fairness opinion is being given by Citibank for UPL and Kotak Bank for Advanta. Okay, so any light on DCRA, what growth rates have they taken for the combined entity because Advanta also has some subsidiaries, which are like making losses and net worths have eroded as per the 2014 Annual Report. So will there be some amount of additional expenses for restructuring like what we incur for EU and LATAM operations of UPL, do you see such a thing happening? And also on the deferred tax asset and the MAT credit part of Advanta? So these two factors of Advanta, these two consideration like on the tax front and the restructuring, can you detail some sort of a surprise going forward because I mean there would be some sort of restructuring right they are considering? We have said that there is going to be savings of about Rs. 90 crores as we go through the synergies and some of these also has been put up in the presentation include some tax breaks which are outside of India, which we have considered. And that is about it. So we believe that there will be a savings of about close to Rs. 90 crores, annual savings. Okay, so when you talk about this particular TCF they have taken hike because ROC and other multiple, other ratios of Advanta look weaker than UPL, so just wanted to get some more? Typical valuation considers all those things, I mean that is why we went to the best people in the industry and also we have a fairness opinion where both of them say that it is fair. Okay, just one or two things more. Usually UPL gives loans as an advance to Advanta, so what is the present status on that, like what is? About Rs. 150 odd crores is there currently so that will get knocked off. Okay, and do you see any synergies like for example corn is one of the core focus areas of Advanta, so now corn is basically also a gene crop like especially in North America and Latin Page 4 of 12

5 America, a bulk of the corn acreage comes under GM crop so does Advanta have any presence in North America which you can use for breaking through to Midwest which you have just started, can Advanta help you in that sense? Jai Shroff: So the real synergies in terms of Americas we see in Argentina, Brazil and some other Latin companies, and Mexico, so that area we see a huge synergy in corn. Even in Thailand we have a very strong corn presence, so if you look at the tropical corn market Advanta has a very strong presence and gaining market share over much more than the growth market. We expect that UPL customer contacts in Brazil, in Mexico, we have a very strong presence, we are the fastest growing company in these markets and we think that Advanta will be able to benefit tremendously from that. So we expect that Advanta anyway the growth prospects for Advanta s genetics in these markets was very good and is very good and with the help of UPL we believe that we will be able to benefit. In fact Advanta this year on corn is in Brazil, which is a very competitive market. Our genetics is so good that we are sold out of all our product and we expect to almost double our market in Brazil, which is a key focus area for the future and with the UPL relationships which we have we have grown dramatically there. So we see a tremendous benefit again in Australia, Thailand we see a huge benefit where Advanta has strong presence, UPL in particular we have 20%, 25% market share in the wheat segment where UPL presence is minimum. We also have a 30% to 40% market share in Canola where UPL presence is minimum. We see these markets, there is Australia, and we see that UPL will benefit tremendously from the very strong customer loyalty. Our brand recognition in Australia and Thailand is we are considered the premium most company there. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sudarshan P. from Sundaram Mutual Funds. Please go ahead. Sudarshan P: Sir, first on the tax benefit which the earlier participant had kind of raised. Sir, the deferred tax that is sitting on Advanta, I mean is it something that because I think there has been some kind of auditor qualification probably I think if I am correct, the benefit comes out of the Argentina and Indonesian subsidiary, right? So can you just throw a bit more light on how much have we taken it from the tax benefit and whether there can be a negative surprise on this front? We have put that in the presentation it is about 4 million. Sudarshan P: Yes sir 4 million. So then the second thing is if I am looking at probably Advanta leaving aside this year, the topline growth has been there, but I think the margins has not been there, I would assume that a lot of investments has been happening. But I mean going forward do you think the investment towards product development and the registration is now more or less behind and probably what is the kind of margins which one can see whether it will be 100 bps, 150 bps or how do we see the traction in business going forward, sir? Page 5 of 12

6 Claudio Torres: So we have seen so far in the last year for Advanta has been a growth of about 4% in gross margins, so that is a fact that we are moving into a much more profitable portfolio by a price gain points and also by being more efficient in the way we are producing and planning for seed production. So I think the margins are going up. The new models and the new geographies where we are participating will have of volume and a combination of value and as Jai Shroff was mentioning, some of these combinations is the Brazilian market with a combined offering of soya bean and corn plus crops are being highly intensive in the use of (Inaudible 15:09) we will enhance the synergies and we will enhance the investments, so far improve crop protection product development and R&D that we have been investing over the last years. We are seeing that as well in the Indian market where we are driving a more profitable portfolio, Australia growth driving portfolio, it is one of our highest one above 60%. So I think if you look at some of the efficiency ratios on Advanta, it is moving towards the right direction. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Agam Vakil from CNBC TV-18. Please go ahead. Agam Vakil: Hi sir, I actually wanted to know a little more about the preference shares that is for residents and non-resident shareholders, if you could give us a little more details about when can these be redeemable? And also what is the ratio of preference shares which will convert into your regular shares? So as I mentioned in my opening remarks, we are issuing convertible preference shares and these would be converted I mean the shareholder can exercise the option of conversion into equity from day one of them being allotted. The difference between residents and non-residents is only the following and this is more related to regulatory issue. The foreign say or the non-residential shareholders, preference shareholders cannot redeem, they will have to compulsorily convert preference shares, whereas resident shareholders have an option up to 18 months anytime they can convert it or after 18 months it will be redeemed and they can collect the par value. The coupon rate on the preference shares is 5%. On your last question about how many shares it would get converted into, it is about for every 471 preference shares of UPL, they would get on conversion, they would get 10 shares of UPL and basically the ratio is Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhijit Akella from IIFL. Please go ahead. Abhijit Akella: First just a quick clarification. In the presentation I think you have mentioned that the UPL ownership stake in Advanta is currently 48.4%, whereas I think if we look at the September 30 disclosures given for Advanta, it was somewhere in the range of 46.5%. So just to clarify whether between September 30 th and November 20 th there has been some acquisition of shares by UPL and Advanta, just to clarify that? That is right. Abhijit Akella: Okay so these additional shares have basically been acquired since then? Page 6 of 12

7 That is right. Abhijit Akella: Okay and second just I wanted to check regarding the timing of this merger why you think this makes sense now as opposed to maybe earlier what benefits do you get by merging it as opposed to keeping it an associate? And also specifically in the context of all the consolidation activity happening globally with a lot of global agro chemical companies talking to each other about consolidating in the marketplace. Does this merger sort of position UPL in any way in a better manner given that kind of backdrop in any way? Jai Shroff: See the whole agri sector is going through a kind of consolidation and we can see that most companies are trying to offer a complete end-to-end solution to the farmer. So if you look at the Monsanto-Syngenta deal; Monsanto clearly has a very strong seed company needs to add few of chemicals to complete its value proposition and I think most of the companies in this sector are offering end-to-end solution to the farmers and with all the technology available we think that UPL which has built a global platform over the last 15, 20 years and we have moved in the last 7, 8 years really to focus on our brand business. We have built a position where we have as good access to the farmers as any other company and we believe that the integration of the seed business is appropriate at this stage, because we will be able to capture the benefits of the UPL distribution network and we believe that there will be some synergies for example in Brazil we have key account management where 50 of the top farming companies are key accounts for UPL, Advanta will straight away be able to walk in to those accounts and these are very large accounts. Even in the US, and in other markets like Mexico and Australia, we believe that there will be tremendous benefits for both UPL and Advanta where we have the seed business and in the seed treatment business and then also the post-harvest technologies. So we are offering the complete value chain to our business partners and to the farmers eventually. And we think that the timing is good because there is a big shift in the thinking across the world among all the companies. So you will see some more companies making, you have already seen a lot of noise around it, and there has been a consolidation and we believe that UPL does not really need to buy any assets. We still continue to grow at twice the rate of industry and we have over the last ten years the fastest growing company in the ag-chem sector and Advanta and the seed sector. So we believe that putting them together will really help us to get synergies on the cost side but we think that which we have not really talked about in synergies on the sales side, on the revenue side, we think that we should be able to get some value in the revenue side also. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sonali S. from Yes Securities. Please go ahead. Sonali S: Just two quick questions. Firstly, you said that the annual cost saving of about Rs. 90 crores would be synergistically gained by UPL from this amalgamation. Could you dwell deeper as to which area you think most of the cost savings would come through? There are three areas we have put up in our presentation. There is a G&A of almost $6 million so about Rs. 36 odd crores. Finance cost we are just assuming at this juncture whatever Advanta Page 7 of 12

8 has borrowed if UPL were to borrow the same amount we would have got it at a much finer rate and that saving is another $4 million. And as I mentioned earlier in the call, there is a $4 million tax savings which is coming basically out of our foreign subsidiaries. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kashyap Pujara from Axis Capital. Please go ahead. Kashyap Pujara: I just had a couple of questions. The first was while I understood the point of synergies and the UPL deriving I mean Advanta deriving benefits of direct placement through the distribution reach of UPL. But in Advanta s Annual Report you know last time we had actually mentioned that Advanta has decided to use UPL as a robust distribution to market its seeds. So would not that have been a better arrangement or what are your thoughts on that because we had any which way mentioned that we would basically be utilizing UPL as a front end? And second is how does it stack up in terms of usage of free cash because UPL is consistently going to generate free cash, whereas Advanta actually on its corporate website had there was a mention that we would look at strategic acquisitions over the next five years. So would it imply that there would be some cash usage towards any acquisition? And second, would be what is your sense on the overall return ratios because UPL s return ratios are significantly better than what Advanta is currently delivering. So at a merged entity level, what are your thoughts on how shareholders can look at return ratios at? Jai Shroff: So I think as we have already said that and you are rightly saying that there was a lot of discussion of how we can capitalize on UPL distribution and we believe that that is the reason we feel that the merger makes sense because we will have some savings from just integrating the business rather than having two standalone entities running and also in countries like Brazil the taxation systems and all are very, very complex. Even in countries like Indonesia, etc. where we have a growing presence across all value chains. I mean if you look at the rice value chain, or if you look at the cassava or corn value chain, we are seeing tremendous growth opportunities and we believe that having a common platform to work and integrated platform to offer to the farmers and community where we can have a common platform, we believe that we will see a tremendous gain. Even in places like Mexico, Argentina where we have been trying to use it, but we think this just consolidates the whole thought process into putting the whole thing together. Most other competitors so far also are doing the same thing and even independent seed companies in the US which are quite substantial are collaborating closely with us because they see that as a benefit to them to as a competitive advantage of aligning with a company like UPL to offer a range where for the obvious reasons we do not operate in the corn market or the soya bean market. So we are integrating there together with other seed companies. As far as acquisitions of Advanta is concerned that Advanta is a growing company we unlike UPL where we have achieved our global presence and portfolio where we are able to drive the whole portfolio to crops which are Page 8 of 12

9 growing in each market, in Advanta we have very strong presence in some markets and we will look at things to buy add on acquisitions, but we are not talking about something substantial. We are talking about germplasm addition; we are talking about small distribution companies who do not have the capability of growing their business, so we may acquire something here and there, but nothing major. So and we believe that Advanta will be generating a positive cash flow and we have gone through the difficult phase of growing from a small company of about Rs. 60 million, Rs. 70 million when we acquired it to now almost Rs. 300 million and we believe that that will continue to grow. We have also been very focused on improving margins and this year was a very good year. The management team has done a fantastic job of improving the margins at Advanta by almost 400 basis points. And this is a tremendous job, there is a lot of effort gone in and the benefits of all this will really show up in the coming years and the gross margin level in these businesses is much higher than in the chemical business. So they are slightly different. Also the stickiness of the seed business is much higher globally than the chemical business. Farmers are much more loyal to seed brand than they may switch on chemicals for price, but seeds they do not switch on for price. They will stick to seeds, they are slightly indifferent to price when it comes to buying seeds. Management: Just to add to what Mr. Shroff said, we expect when we see the first combined results coming on in 2017 by which all the approvals and everything will be in place, it would be as secretor. Kashyap Pujara: That is one thing. Second thing would be that main thing would be that the cash generation of Advanta would also be strong enough, so to that extent if there are any acquisitions, it is unlikely to put in a big drain on the cash flow and one will still have free cash to either do dividend payouts or buy backs or any other strategic portfolio? Absolutely. Fair assessment absolutely and I mean it would be crop specific acquisition or small ones as Mr. Shroff mentioned. Jai Shroff: And I mean just our UPL s focus is, all our decisions are based on improving shareholder return and so you will continue to see the company driving towards generating of cash, more cash and finding the best way to return it to shareholders. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jinesh Gandhi from Motilal Oswal Securities. Please go ahead. Jinesh Gandhi: Hi sir, a couple of questions. First is pertaining to what will be the gross and net debt post acquisition on consolidated basis? Page 9 of 12

10 If we were to make some estimates of you know we have seasonality business, Jinesh you have been following the company, you know it well. So as of March 16, we expect the net debt to be in the range of about Rs crores combined entity. Jinesh Gandhi: Secondly, we have indicated about these synergies, which are there especially at the front end. How much of that has been we have been pursuing it for some time considering we have been cross selling products of Advanta through UPL, so how much of those synergies we have already pursued and what has been the feedback on that side, which gives us more confidence of the synergies? We have shared with you in our presentation slide 20, that in India we tried out this model and we are extremely pleased because we saw a good growth in both crop protection business as well as in the seeds business. And probably that is also one of the reasons which has encouraged us to go ahead and do this. So while sales and marketing teams remain independent, everything else we sort of wherever there are opportunities to combine, we do that and that is what results in improved sales as well as improved margins. Claudio Torres: And also we have observed and we have excellent examples in big markets like Brazil where we are having a closer relationship between the seed business and the crop protection business and opening doors both ways. So some growers were very interested on certain specific conversations on seeds we were able to open doors for the crop protection side, for growers where we have a good relationship on the crop protection side, now we have the door open for the seed business and we can have a more engaging and comprehensive conversation about the full range of products we are offering them so there is a lot of synergies in both sides and tangible synergies and we have seen conversations with our customers all over the place and so we feel very optimistic that this will bring on a much higher value. Management: Just to give another example particularly in the southern part of Brazil is a very difficult market to penetrate. Advanta is the exclusive marketer of Canola seeds, which is a steady, a stagnant market. It is not growing much but we think it will grow over a period and those customers for UPL to enter into was extremely difficult, but with the large co-operatives which are very traditional, we were able to give UPL access to those customers because of the Advanta Canola relationship which we had. So we are seeing in all kinds of markets we are seeing some advantages. Even in the wheat market in Australia which is a huge 11 million acre market, UPL has a very small presence and we have been starting to gain some additional presence and we think that these treatments and other technologies which we have for the (Inaudible 34:32) we will be able to get in because we have 22% market share growing and then by 2020 we will have probably 35% market share of the wheat market. And so we think that is a tremendous platform for us not very competitive difficult customers to crack, but if you have one product they want, you can at least open the door for other products and we believe that the benefits will be tremendous. Page 10 of 12

11 Thank you. The next question is from the line of Girish Achhipalia from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead. Girish Achhipalia: Hi sir, just a couple of questions. If I look at the numbers here for 2015 calendar year for Advanta, it seems like the growth is coming at the PAT level driven by the other income EBIT. See EBITDA is in fact declined and you also said that the transaction is going to be EPS accretive for next year. Now given the valuation premium that Advanta currently commands, which I believe is about 17, 18 times one year forward EBITDA. Could you throw some light as to what are the assumptions that you have in the DCF methodology that you have a fairness opinion for to get to the number of swap ratio that you have arrived at? So Girish, I will break up this question in two parts. The first part, which you asked me is where I can comment on. On the DCF as I said we have relied on the opinions given by BSR and accepted by Citi and Kotak. But let us address head on the point about what you mentioned in terms of the PAT and the PAT for Advanta. Now 2014 if one has to look at the PAT, it was about Rs. 90 odd crores and we expect the PAT to be in the range of anywhere by 2016 in the range of about Rs. 240 odd crores. Now if you see, we are just assuming 10%, 12% growth yearon-year in topline a margin improvement of about 2% and that is the gross margin improvement. So this we believe would in turn contribute close to about Rs. 40 odd crores net of taxes because with the improvement in margins and other things we will have to pay the taxes. So net of taxes this would come in about Rs. 40 odd crores. We are talking about savings in financial cost, because the FCCBs will fall off plus we have squared off some of our debts by putting an equity into high interest cost countries like Argentina and others which has resulted in an interest rate of close to Rs. 28 crores. And all put together the interest savings and both things over the next two years would be in the range of about Rs. 70 crores to Rs. 75 crores. And we did a restructuring in Argentina we are moving forward in terms of manpower savings we expect to get a savings of close to about Rs 23 crores. So all this put together, we feel fairly reassured that we will be able to reach the target of about Rs. 240 crores by So that if you add about Rs. 90 crores of savings which is coming out of the synergy which we have been talking about on account of merger, then we are talking about close to almost about Rs. 330 crores, and if you divide that by the shares which we are issuing at about 7 crores 45 lakh shares; then you are talking about Advanta EPS to be about 44, which is well above the UPL EPS in the range of about for 2016 the projections vary from 30 to 32 and so we remain that when you see the consolidated balance sheet which is going to be published first time by March 2017, we feel quite confident that it would be EPS accretive. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Satish Kumar from Bank of India, Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead. Page 11 of 12

12 Satish Kumar: Just one question. This is regarding the R&D expenditure that Advanta does. Now we have a stated objective in Advanta that we are going to spend around 10% of the revenue on R&D. Are we going to maintain that going forward? Claudio Torres: Yes, we are trying to maintain that, we have been rationalizing as well as our portfolio and we are focusing on the crops that we are expecting to have a much higher capacity to gain share and value. So we are streamlining the focus, we are putting much more focus in those crops but we will maintain our internal strategy of investing around 10% from the seed revenue side. Satish Kumar: And sir, the second question I have is on the launch of the GM seed in US market. We were supposed to launch it in near term, correct me if I am wrong sir, whether we have launched it? Claudio Torres: Yes, so this year we are expecting about $8 million of our gross margin coming out from our GM corn business, but as we have previously discussed in some of our conference calls, the entire strategy behind that is to be able to supply a more complete portfolio for our growers in the South East US. We have no plans so far, and genetics to enter into the larger mid-west corn belt. This is because the fact of having corn complements in our seed portfolio for our dairy and feedlot customers. So that is the focus and the objective and is concentrated on a certain geography within the US. Satish Kumar: And sir, just a follow up. We have around 38 seed products in pipeline, which is in L5 and L6, this is vegetable seed products. Can I know the status and 13 products you were supposed to launch in Advanta only I am talking, sir. Whether we have launched that that was also in vegetable product. I read it in your Annual report, sir? Claudio Torres: Yes, we have been launching at the race that we expected to develop, as well on the vegetable side, we are being focusing as well on certain type of crops which are most profitable for us and we have a much high capacity to compete. So we could spend a lot of time on discussing the specifics of the portfolio of Advanta which is a very large one but I think we should move that for next investors call we would be very happy to share more. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraint that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Anand Vora for closing comments. Thank you very much for joining us on the call and as always I along with my colleagues Ashish will be available to and from Advanta side Mr. Manoj and Mr. Claudio will be available to take any questions if you all have; you are feel free to either drop us an or give us a call. Thank you very much for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Kotak Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Page 12 of 12