Looking at peer-to-peer selling (eg. of energy) want to work with Co-Op.

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1 Integrated energy systems event discussion notes: National Trust Listed status of buildings results in constraints Building conditions (humidity etc.) need to be taken into account due to precious artworks etc. Building systems (eg. heating, cooling) are typically over-specified typically by a safety factor of ca. 30% Process for carrying out official energy assessments is weak typically a box-ticking exercise (eg. does the building have double glazing) that is not representative of a buildings genuine credentials. Lots of different types of buildings with different types of tenants etc. Looking at peer-to-peer selling (eg. of energy) want to work with Co-Op. RNLI 1. Small buildings, but lots of them! 2. Lots of variety in those buildings 3. Some of the buildings are rented, some are owned. 4. RNLI want to deliver value for the community beyond saving lives at sea 5. The local community can be averse to new ideas eg. wind turbines 6. Culture/behavioural change in RNLI staff is required 7. Ownership of a challenge can be unclear; organisation somewhat siloed. Influencing the procurement department, for instance, is one specific challenge 8. Knowing what technical options are out there is a challenge Mutuals are providing energy on decentralised basis. Staffs EEN for instance are setting up such agreements New funding models eg. buying from/selling to local community Regarding 8 above: Sustain can help the like of RNLI go beyond replacement of simple like-for-like technologies Severn Wye can help regarding engagement with the user of the building getting the best out of the technology Sustain suggested using heat meters for individual users, and mentioned relevant legislation coming in at the end of the year. RNLI expressed interest in talking further with Sustain. Church of England 150 farms: Reluctance of tenants to change Charitable status doesn t help re. monetary arguments/models ie. other concerns are more prominent than they might be for a typical business

2 Co-Op are producing biomass from the (large amount of) land they are in control of. Garden of Wales Cost of installation can be prohibitive not just the technology itself, but also the building management system and the maintenance costs National Trust would be happy to share their learning Staffs EEN are exploring new models of finance sharing up-front costs, spreading ongoing costs. Whitworth Gallery Though it s impressive in many ways (eg. an abundance of well controlled natural light, sophisticated control systems) the Whitworth s new extension has had some glitches: o Air-source heat pumps don t work. (Implications/resultant costs have been borne by contractor) o Operators can t find the light switch in one corridor! This sort of glitch is probably the result of the rush to complete the building ready for its opening date Talk to professional bodies eg. facilities management Use external groups like this one to share best practise, case studies. Co- Op have some case studies written up that they d be happy to share (they will need to ask permission to do so). Co-Op are keen to help others with this kind of initiative, sharing some of their successes: their energy annual conference, reporting system, etc. Convince the executive team Sunamp can offer technology that utilises phase-change materials. The results are the removal of peaks & troughs, including potential for physically moving the stored energy. They are working, for instance, with a local council. Alice Elliott, Head of Sustainability, University of Chester: One of small team looking at energy use across Thornton Science Park. Site has centralised boiler / steam heating system which is inefficient plus a program of new build and lease of facilities / labs to third parties/tenants. Looking at Energy Performance Contract and to take holistic view across the estate. Whilst the subject of today s meeting is Energy, a key challenge at present is Water ; how to understand key drivers and reduce demand / consumption. Energy is used in the production/treatment of water but water is not seen as renewable ; it s perceived as infinitive resource.

3 Richard Carter, Finance & Sustainability Manager, Adnams: Technology providers and asset owners need to understand their downstream impacts. Would typically avoid cold callers but would follow up with recommendations from other FFF members. Energy storage sometimes not considered until you need to consider how to move energy from one place to another. Only then does it come up as an option. Need to consider energy use from sustainable business view and not for short-term i.e. impact of FITs. Euan Hilton,Northern Rail: Technology providers often don t spend enough time to understand the business. This is further complicated by NR business e.g. different types & lengths of their contracts and varied contractors responsible for different aspects of services e.g. above ground & buried services. There is therefore a need to work with NR to understand the whole of the business, what documentation is required (risk assessments, method statements, etc) and where their technologies could fit. This is understandably a problem for small businesses (Pinazek / Energy Storage) but NR team has teams that can provide support. Chloe Hampson, Manager, Fit for the Future Network: Completely alternative view is often required. Example, Philips scheme of paying per lux (i.e. light used) and not number of lightbulbs consumed. Cited as possible model for science park e.g. Chester University. Joan Pisanek, Sunamp Ltd: Small businesses need to be realistic and recognise when projects are too large for them. Ian Preston, Head of Household Energy Services, Centre for Sustainable Energy: Sales people often offer an optimistic view but found to be getting better i.e. more realistic in recent times. Cara Nadem, Trustee, Zero Carbon World: Not enough promotion / celebration of successes. Joan Pisanek, Sunamp Ltd: Water can also be used as source of generation (water turbines). Much work down in US. Energy / electric storage is main focus but heat storage often overlooked. Group suggested that the technology was not seen as attractive and that historic domestic heat storage systems are not popular. Recent development in solar thermal systems may be helping to educate consumers here. Energy Storage - many clients don t understand whole picture and are often focused on saving energy in one area (sometimes when savings can be more in

4 another area). Group was in favour of metering to better understand usage across different parts of the estate. Key problem is that services are often difficult to access or buried and therefore installation of meters and leakages are a big problem. It was noted that water companies make most of their money on drainage and so FFF members should focus resources on minimising this. For example, reducing amount of water going down drains (from roofs & run offs) can save considerable cost and also through re-use (e.g. can Northern Rail use to clean vehicles & rolling stock?) A number of the group talked about sustainability projects being side tracked by management due to a low priority. This included the RNLI National Trust, Northern Rail, Canal and river trust. People in roles promoting sustainability seem to work in siloes and feel alienated at times by lack of the priority give. There is a skill in turning an argument for a sustainable energy project into a commercial project that will get approved. A number of people felt that justifying a power project was easier that justifying a heat project. One individual felt here was a lack of good controllers for matching generation with demand, but with an element of scalability to future proof to some extent. Some discussion was had around designing a scheme to match the demand of the property rather than designing maximum generation and then factoring in FIT s. FIT s always add uncertainty, and maximum capacity designs can cause installation / connection costs to escalate adversely effecting the business case for a scheme. Discussion was had about many of the organisation s such as NT, RNLI are not innovative and as charities have to be seen to putting their funding to a use creating maximum benefit to stakeholders. Risky innovations some times don t pass this test and come out as to risky. Discussion was had about a system to generate energy from the flow in canals, particularly at locks where water falls from one level to another. This was a project that was under consideration but no system existed off the shelf for such a scheme. A lot of discussion was had around the planning and regulations surrounding renewable energy schemes. The feeling was that there was insufficient rules documented and approval of renewable schemes was largely subjective and down to individuals opinion on planning committees. The group was advised to approach planning applications with this in mind, and that positioning of planning applications needed some thought and was a skill in its own right.

5 A challenge to develop aesthetically pleasing solar was raised. Whilst some products are available they become uneconomic due to cost. There are also insufficient roof replacement solar systems around as such a system s business case in enhanced by the installation having a dual purpose. The group thought that we need business models that don t need subsidies, This also would encourage storage as income from exporting would be reduced below the cost to import. Domestically, technology needs to remove the need for people to change their habits, ie using washing appliances over night can utilize off peak electricity, but the better solution would be storage that charged up on off peak electricity allowing use at any time. So better and smarter energy controllers need to be developed. Some of the storage technologies discussed were small scale Lithium with high cycle capabilities, This allows a smaller size unit which is cycled multiple times in a day. A5 KW Sunamp phase change system about the size of a domestic combi boiler. Northern rail explained the potential to install solar at train stations. The energy usage at unmanned stations is minimal, and so doesn t look attractive to management. In addition the lack of longevity on some rail franchises inhibits innovation new business / ownership models are required to overcome this. Some projects become better implementable by Network Rail than franchisees. Discussion about network rail being very risk averse and poo-pooing projects on a risk basis where no risk exists. More education may be required here. Some discussion about implementation of LED s