1 University of Illinois at Springfield Norris L Brookens Library Archives/Special Collections Eleanor DeLong Memoir D383. DeLong, Eleanor ( ) Interview and memoir 1 tape, 46 mins., 25 pp. MENTAL HEALTH CARE PROJECT DeLong, former attendant and manager of the laundry at the Jacksonville State Hospital, recalls her employment in the hospital's laundry, patients working in the laundry as therapy, conditions at the hospital for patients and employees, living conditions for employees on the hospital grounds, conditions at the hospital during the Depression and WWII, a fire at the hospital, and new facilities. Interview by Rodger Streitmatter, 1972 OPEN See collateral file Archives/Special Collections LIB 144 University of Illinois at Springfield One University Plaza, MS BRK 140 Springfield IL University of Illinois Board of Trustees
2 PREFACE This manuscript is the product of a tape recorded Interview conducted by Rodger Streitmatter for the Oral History Office in October, Kay Mackan transcribed the tape; IM McKinley and Kay MacLean edited the transcript. Mrs. %Long was born October 8, 1911 at Bluffs, Illinois. She began working at Jacksonville State Hospital, Jacksonville, Illinois in 1929 as a ward attendant. She lived on the hospital grounds for two years while she attended nurses training there and then, while still working as an attendant, she attended Illinois College in Jacksonville. In late 1934 Mrs. DeLong lost her job due to political patronage. She worked at a private mental hospital in Jacksonville for two and a half years before she was rehired in 1941 as an attendant at the state hospital. In 1942 she transferred to the hospital laundry and in 1953 she became a manager of that facility, As laundry manager Mrs. &Long supervised patients assigned to the laundry for irdustrial therapy and her memoir includes recollections of those experiences. She also presents insights into the day-to-day flmctioning of the state hospital axd changes in the treatment of patients, in the hospitals physical facilities and in personnel policy. She camments also on ChEU3ghg conditions at the hospital during the Depression and World War 11. Readers of this oral history memoir should bear in mind that it Is a transcript of the spoken word, and that the Interviewer, narrator and editor sought to preserve the informal, conversational style that is inherent in such historical sources. Sangamon State University is not
3 Mrs. Eleanor &Long, October 11, 1972, Jacksonville, Illinois, Rodger Streitmatter, Interviewer. Q: What diff'erent jobs have you had at Jacksonville State Hospital during the years that you've worked here? A: I first started work in October of I worked on the wards. At that time we were attendants. Q: What is your present title? A: Laundry Manager 11. Q: When did you reach that position? A: Well, our title's been changed. I don't know exactly when they changed it to Laundry 11, but I have been in charge of the laundry since Before that for five years I was the assistant. Q: You said you started as am attendant. Was that on one of the wards or in the laundry? A: On the wards. I started as an attendant In Then in January I went into nurses training school; they had a two year nurses trainjvlg school and I've had two years training here. It was a two year course and you had to affiliate elsewhere to finish. One, I couldn't afford to go, and two, the chief nurse and I didn't get along. You want the truth, now. (laughter)
4 Eleanor DeLong 2 Q: I sure do, (laughter) Did you come to the laundry after you got out of nurses training? A: No. I worked Porn 3:00 p.m. to 11:30 p.m. and went to Illinois College. I worked the night shift eight hours a day, and went to Illinois College. I was still an attendant. In the latter part of Jauasy, was laid off politically. At that time our civil service was to no advantage, And there was a depression. The -stration changed and a Democrat wanted job. The day I left, January 30, 1934, there was twenty sane odd people laid off. They were pmctically all changed over unless they had strong political connections. Q: Where did you go fhm here? Did you work during that period? A: Oh yes, I went to California. I stayed six months and then I cam haw. Then I went back to California and stayed a while and then I came back bane and I got married and I worked at Norbury's. It was at that tlme a private mental hospital [and I workd there] for two years arad a half. In 1941 on June 9, the Republicans were back In and I came back to work. And, I worked for six months on the ward as an attendant. And then I wanted an 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. job so I started asking for one and they put me in the laurdry. Wlt, we worked 7:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. at that time. Q: Have you had any polltical problems since that time? try it periodically, They ' ve kind give Q: Do you think the political problem has irrrproved?
5 Eleanor Dehrg 3 A: Well, yes, because our personnel code is much stronger and I think they finally got tired of messing wlth me. You know, they didn't want my big mouth to interfere with [them]. Yes, I was off during the Stevenson administration. I had 75 accwnulated days and two vacations ard they were going to fire me, supposedly for just cause. Af'ter my time was all up, Dr. Bellinson called me in. He had came here, and he said, The charges they have against you are tissue paper. " I said, "My attorney assured me of this s m time ago. " So, I'm still here. (laughter) And, I 'rn still Republican. Q: Do you remember, then, when patients worked? A: I worked one hundred sixty at one time. Q: We hundred sixty patients? Q: Did they work regular hours? A: We worked from 7:30 a.m. until 4:30 p.m. It generally was 8:OO am. by the the we got the patients there; the employees went on the wards and brought them. They reported to work at 7:30 a.m., then they went to the wards and brought out the patients-the detail. And, then we took them In for lunch, and they had an hour lunch. Then we went back and got them and brought them back out and then they generally started in with them at about 4:15 p.m. The doctors assigned them as therapy. Q: This was consi~ed sm kird of work therapy, or occupational therapy?
6 A: It was therapy. Q: Do you remember when patients first began working in the laundry? A: My mther came here to work in 1926 and they were working patients in the laundry then. I think they put patients in the laundry as far back as.... Mm came here to work when I was 14 years old and they was working patients in the laundry then. I was 61 last Sunday. They stopped working them in the laundry in Q: Did patients stop working at the same time throughout the hospital? A: I really don't know. The reason they stopped working the patients in ITQ~ demment was because they built the new laundry and they dsd not want them to work on this machinery because it's faster and there was more of a chance of them be- injured. We have trained a few patients down here on the training pmgram. Q: Have any of these patients been able to find employment in the camrromltt y 7 A: That was the goal. What happened to thm I couldn't tell you. kt, we didn't train too rt7any. See, people don't particularly want to work in a laundry. It's hot and it's labor. Q: Did you have much trouble mtivating patients who worked here? A: What do you mean, getting them to work? I'd take them anytime in preference to employees-at least they 're here, (laughter ) Q: Is that right?
7 A: Right, Before the tranquilizers, I'd fall all over that laundry floor, We had fights, we had rrmzaways, we had everything in the book. Every patient nobody else wanted, they assigned to me. And I sent home more-percentage wise-than any other industrial therapy group on the grounds. One of the doctors checked it. And mine stayed at home. I was real fond of my patients. I had every one of theb birthdays; I baked them all a cake on their birthday. And if I didn't bake one and I bought one, I got told about it. Wlt, I had a listing of all my patient's birthdays. And all my patients got a cake on theb birthday, And then we had a day that we let them do things that they wasn't supposed to do. And we did things that wasn't supposed to be done. Like if somebody wanted an extra special job on their shirt, we got a dtrvne a shirt for them. And, all the shirt unit operators would do it. Weld band them, embroidery them, make them look real nice and then the patients that brought them in got ten cents a shirt for them. And, we did things for employees we wasn't supposed to do. We did the power house's overallsand scuffs, We made them cross our palms with silver and we had a patients' f'und. And then during the hot weather we would catch the Coke man and buy soda pop at cost, and we'd have a party. We had a ball. Q: Do you think the patients got as much work done as the employees would have? A: I didn't work patients a wble lot on my pressing. The patients shook up, paired and folded on the flat-work Ironer. Yes, I'd say
8 Eleanor Ddmg 6 they got as much done as employees. Iht its a different type of equipment here than it was up there. Q: Where was the other laundry located? A: It was across from the old kitchen; it's tom down now. Did you notice that building that's on the south side of the street? Do you know where the old kitchen is? Well, that building is all tore down but just a part of it. That's the old laundry. It's a11 gone but just a vexy little bit. I think, in fact, what's left was the original old laundry long before my the. In fact, there was two additions built on the laundry during the time I worked in it. Q: Were the patients ever paid? A: Ah, what we gave them, You know, I discussed this with Governor Stratton. I went to Springfield and talked to him about it myself. He had Thursdays that he saw people, so I made a little trlp over and asked him why my patients couldnft be paid. I said, "They pay prisoners in the penitentiary, so why can't they pay my patients?" And he said, "Well, we're getting these prisoners ready to go out.i1 And I said, "Well, don't you ever expect rqr patients to go home?" And he said, "All right, Eleanor, I didn't thinlc of it and nobody mentioned it. I w ill look into it,ll down. But, the legislature turned it Q: Do patients who work get paid now? Ours on the did.
9 Eleanor DeLong 7 Q; Did they get paid only if they were in a training program? A: They did. But, you'd be surprised at how mch money it cost you to work with them at that time. There was somebody who always wanted a nickle or a dime. And you always had it, The laundry was the first industrial therapy group on the grounds to take their patients on a regular basis to the comdssary as a poup. We took our patients to the cormnissary every morming and every afternoon. These were the patients that had no parole privileges. Every rnornhg att;, likejten o'clock we would call c~ssary; all the patients would line up and one or two employees would take them to the co~ssary. Sometimes you'd end up having to pay for what they got of them would oder without amy money. did the same. (laughter) because some And, then every afternoon we And, then, the kitchen, during the hot weather, would send us Kool-Aid or iced tea. We would take a break and go outside and serve the patients Kool-Aid or iced tea. Or, as I said, we would take the money that we had accurmnlated doing things we wasn't supposed to do and we would catch the Coke company and buy soda at cost--and we always made them sell it to us at cost--and then we'd have a Coke party. Or, we would go uptown and buy enough cakes to go arourd and we would have soda pop and cake. Q: Did many of your patients want to come to work? A: You how they used to send the patient to the laundry for punish- ment. The first thing I did when I took over was elhirate that idea. They were not sent to me to be punished. If they said they were going to send them to me to be punished, I ref'used the assignment.
10 Eleanor Dehng 8 I had patients who didn't want to change assigments, They liked their jobs Fn the laundry. They wanted to stay there. There's a patient setting over here on one of these wds to this day that will not work anywhere because they will not let her work at the laundry. And she's always beggimg to come to the launcky. She says, "Eleanor, the laundry is still there, why can't I go back to work?" And a lot of ow patients, when they had to leave the I-, were terrifically upset when they were taken out. I've had them cry because they had to be moved out of the laundry when they did the upheaval and took away the patients. I've had them come arrd sit in my office cry because they weren't allowed to cane back, Maybe I'm nuts, but, see, I'm fond of my patients. But, don't get me wrong. I chew them! I had a patient cane back one time after he'd gone me. He said, "Eleanor, I'm so glad I worked for you. " He said, "If I was wrong, you chewed me. If I was rlght, you'd fell me what a good job I was doing. '' He said, "On the job, if I get chewed, I can take it. I always had to kmn you." I treated them just like I did the employees. Because, we weye training them to go back out in the world, and honey and spice-that kind that gets honey all the time- it don't work. When you go back out in the world you don't get it. So, that's the way ours were done. my1 could probably tell you about my methods. (lw$ter 1 He always said I was the best therapist over here. Q: It soms as though you've gotten results that a lot of other people who supposedly know what they're doing haven't gotten. in Cohen is now superintendent of the Andrew McFmM Zone Center. Ed.
11 Eleanor Dehng 9 A: If a patient worked for me, when they got ready to go home this is what I said: ''You have two strikes on you. If you do things outside- things that I can do with no one thinking a~&l?ing about it-they look at you because you have been in the hospital. to do something wrong. will People look for you But, don't let it bother you because the public has sent many a patient back just by the way they've treated them." I said, IIDon't let it bother you, The ones that matter understand and the rest of them are not important anyway." And I always told them, "If you ever come back, I want you back in the laundry; but if you come back, 1'11 kick you for coming." And I had one cane in one day--he'd corn back-and he leaned over and he said, "Eleanor, ain't you going to kick me?'' He coines to see me all the time. He's been out for 10 years, He comes in and visits me. good job, and he's doing real well. He has a very Q: Doesn't this make you feel pretty good? (laughter) A: Yes. He always comes in and grabs me and swings me up in the air and kisses me. He said I cured him. He was having trouble with his mther and his mother-in-law. He had a wife and five children, and I said, "Move as damn far away *om both of them as you can get." He had a dealership from an implement company that was bugging him. I said, "Get rid of it, work for samebody else. Get out of this situation. Get away fym your people, get away fhm her's. Stand on those two feet yourself." And he did it. And, he is doing real, real well. I never worried about them when they'd go out until I'd start to hear &om them or they'd start caning to see me real often.
12 Eleanor Dehng 10 Q: And then you thought they had some problem? A: Then I'd begh to worry because I thought they were needing reassurance and they were slipping. As long as they stayed away fkom me, I hew they was allrlght. But, whenever they started coming to see me-like, there's some here in Jacksonville who would come by two or three times a week-then I'd begin to worry. I'd how they needed help, Something was wrong with them. Q: Have my of the patients who have left come back here and worked for you as Department of Mental Health employees? A: Not any of mine, I do have ex-patients, but they did not work for me before. In fact, I have two that have been patients since they have worked for me. They were patients prior, and they had cracked up since they were working for me. In fact, I have one employee now who is over on a ward as a patient. He will come back when he goes back out. This is his second throw. But, he will came back to work for me. Q: You said that at one the about one hundred sixty patients were working under you. In about what year was this? A: Okay let's see, I took over the laundry in 1953-that was the year Mom died--we had about one hundred sixty along in from there. Now, understand, you did not alwws have one hundred sixty because ym would have some home on visits-although they did not go home much then--or they would keep them in [the ward]. We also had to take our patients to the barber shop, We had to take them to the barber shop twice a week, One of the men gathered up
13 Eleanor &Long 11 everybody who had to go from the Annex and the Main. They didn't shave on the wards,!they took them to the bmbw shop for haircuts and shaves, and we took our women to the beauty shop. Q: You had one hundred sixty people although they weren't all working at exactly the same time? A; Yes. And I don't know how many employees there were. When we started out, I think we only had about eighteen employees but we were up to tw+bynthme or thinbj~d&vemployees befbre we went over to all employees. Q: How many of the one hundred sixty patients would be working at any given time? A: Oh, you would average approxhately one hundred there. But, maybe they'd ask to see the doctor, or one would be disturbed or,... We had probably one hundred In a throw. Q: How rrany staff members dfd you hve? A: Well, now we used to have-we started out with approxfrrately twenty but when we came down here in 1955, we had gone to thirty-three or thrity-five. Because, see, in the meantime we used to have all hand-irons. We had very few presses. We just had parts of presses. Arid everything that was done was hand-ironed. The patients1 clothing were not finished. Mostly they were rough dried. Just special things were finished. And then they bought all the presses and the first thing I did when I took aver the laundry was start press* all the patients1 clothes, All the outer garments was pressed. I was the first laundry manager in the Department of Mental Health to do it,
14 Eleanor DeLong 12 Q: What were the reactions in other hospitals to this new policy? A: Well, they got very upset about it because our consultant at that th~ had been a laundry manager at Chicago State Hospital. And, he went mound to all the laundries and told every ladry maylager that Mrs. DeLong at Jacksonville was pressing all of her patientst outer garments, and she [Nrs. Debng] was a wanan where mst of your laundry managers were male. I'm the only fermle in mental health. Q: Is that right? I didn't how that. A: Yes. h the Department of Mental Health, I'm the only female at this time. And I think at that time there was two of us-dorothy Robinson at Chicago State Hospital and myself. And, it reacts [on] some mants ego to be told that someone is doing more than they are and that she is a woman, So, some of them tried and some of them didn't. W1C we were the first, I felt it should be done. I thought it was therapeutic. I like my clothes ironed. If it was my mother, I'd expect herts ironed. But, that was employee done. Those presses were employee operated. That's how come our employee quota went up. Q: Was the machinery always employee operated? A: The presses were. The patients sort and fold. (A man in the background shouts a question; the tape stops and starts again with lws. DeLong speaking) You how, we used to be very bad around here about segregatfon. Now don't get me wrong. I think sometimes they go a little too far on the desegration, I don't mean in color-i mean in sex. You how,
15 Eleanor DeLong 13 used to, the men set on one side, your men on another. They did not f'raternize, At the dances the men were on one side-4 the shows-the wmen on another. They got up and trotted across to get the women to dance with them. Your details were kept sepwate. Your men and women, I always told mine, IIYou talk to everybcdyy, be they mle or femle. Talk, but don't touch." And that was my rule. I didn't want any torrid love aff&s, but I also figured that in the world you talk to everybody-be they male or female. So in the laundry department we all talk, the men and the women, We were all-we weren't kept separate. I worked men and wanen along side each other. Because, in the outside world that's the way you play it, So that Is the wqy we played it, Q: You now do laundry for many other places besides Jacksonville State Hospital. Did you do laundry for any other institutions when Jacksonville's population was still high? A: When we had 3,660 sane odd patients? I think 3,665 or 3,668 was the official figure of the highest the institution has ever been. &: Were you doing laundry for any other facilities at that time? A: We started doing the Youth Corranission in They mu? out of money; they were hirfng thek laundry done in Havanna, and they ran out of money. So, our consultant came over and asked for us to do it. They were either going to bring it to Lincoln or to Jacksonville. Ethel Boyle was the head of the Department of Home Economics and Nutrition and she was over a11 the housekeeping and all the laundry.
16 Eleanor Debng 14 She said, "Take it to Jacksonville because Eleanor will do a better job." And we got our way, too. You how, one of them left-handed compliments? (laughter) kt we st&ed the Blind and Deaf In And, McFarland, whenever it opened. And, as I say, we only do thelr linens. And we started Lincoln last yeax. I think they started bringing the big loads, a third at a time, in June. Q: Do you do clothes as well as lhens for mast of these places? A: Right. We do all their linens and their clothing. NOW, the Deaf have recently bought a washer and dryer--i think it was two years ago--and they do their own bath towels. Now, what we're supposed to do for the Blind and Deaf on these kid's clothes is only the hardship and relief cases. Otherwise the families are supposed to either have them sent home or to mange to have them done by local washer women. That was the setup. And with this wash-and-wear bit, we don't do nearly as snany as we did. Q: Does that make quite a difference in your work? A: It maha all the difference in the Blind an3 Deaf' because the kids do a lot of them themselves, Because our formulas actually are not set up to handle your wash-and-wear as well as a lot of other things. Because you? wash-and-wear should be loaded a lot lighter, should be taken right out of the dryer and folded,& the tbne. we don't have Q: How many pieces of laundry do you do in a week's time?
17 Eleanor Dehng 15 A: I have no idea on the pieces, but we do have the poundage. We were doing over fif'ty ton a week for our own institution years ago, and on a five day week. Well, it was a seven day week but we were doing It in five. And, we were mxnnjng approximately ten tons a week for the Blind and Deaf together. &t not a.ny more-it's gone way down. Q: At what pobt in time were you washing fifty tons per week? A: Oh, we were doing that in the old laundry before we came down here, We came down here in 1965, I have no records but at that time we were doing fifty ton a week for our own institution. And it would vaxy; it% an odd thing, but your laundry would a1wa.y~ vary. You'd have a lfght week, a medium week, and a heavy week but they would average out approximtely the same per week. But they would vary. Q: Did you wash uniforms for staff members here at Jacksonville? A: Everyone was required to wear uniforms and we were required to do them. Originally we did three a week. That would be-the men wore white s W s and white pants, We would do three white shirts, three pah of white pants-three unifom per employee. Then when we came down here we started doing five so they could have one a day. And, we had boxes all around the roam. We did cmplete family wash for our doctors and officials. They were picked up and delivered once a week, Q: Didn't the employees' families live on the grounds in those days? A: Right. And, we did the* laundry. We did the superintendent's
18 Eleanor DeLong 16 wash at that time twice a week. But all the doctom and officials-we had them with all the children and all. h fact, we did that after we came down here, Q: Did you ever live on the grounds? A: Oh yes, when I had nurses traairiirg they made me live on the pounds. Q: Did you live here my time when you were employed? A: Well, yes, I was an employee. During the two years nurses train- ing, you drew an attendantls salary. You lived in the nurses quarters. Q: What was that like? A: You mean living on the pounds? I lived in the nurses' quarters. The Ehployees Home is rnarked up there, and it was Gateway. One side was the married side, and the other side was the single side. Well, mine was very bad because my mother worked here and they made me mom with her. So, I was under constant discipline. She was hder on me than anybody else, Q: When did your mther work here? A: My mother came here to work the last of June In She had two of us girls at home. The reason she came-i had a sister who come here to work in January of Then my mther came to work and then rqy other sister came. My other sister just paduated *om high school and was eighteen. So, she came over and applied for a job. And Dr. Hill, the old doctor here--the superintendent-said, I1How old are you?ll
19 Eleanor DeLong 17 She said, "Eighteen. " He said, "Come back when youlre older. " So, in two weeks she came back and applied for a job and he said, llhow old are you?'' Ard she said, "Twenty-one. l1 and he hired her. So she lived here. And the girls both were in the nurses'... (inaudible because of lawter) Eut mother worked here. She was also laid off during the political purge. I was laid off ln January, and I think they got Mom in March. And, they did replace us, but they replaced us by a Dmcrat, (The next three sentences are Mrs. DeI;ongls response to an employee's question) Make sure they get sane hand towels out there. Tell Ed to see that they get some hand towels out there. They need them for the racks. Q: Has the l ady always been in operation eight hours a day since you've been here? A: When I first came it was a six day week, We worked on Saturday. We alws had Sunday off. And then, they cut it down to five and a half days a week, Arad then when the forty hour week went into effect, Dr. Bellinson was here and he wanted us to be open six days but work forty hours--like part of them take off Saturday and Sunday and part of them Sunday and Monday. And I said no. Because the people that took off Sunday and Monday would leave the work for the ones that took off Saturday and Sunday. I said no, and he closed the door. bt!s see what we can do!' So that IS the way we did until we got... (The rest of the sentence is inaudible) And they like it. When I first came here the only holidays we ever took were Thanksgiving and
20 Eleanor Debng 18 Christrr!as, We've got it that way now. All we take now is Christmas. Q: The only holiday you have is Christmas? A: We get the rest off, but we don't take off. This laundry never closes except Christmas. It runs seven days a week. Q: Then you get the same number of holidays off, but you just don't shut down on those days? A: Yes, we take another day. I haven't been off a holiday except Christmas since a year ago Memorial Day. But, I've got a lot of time coming. I could be off nine months and never lose a dime if I could get a doctor" certificate. I'm go* to lose a lot of vacation tjme because I haven't taken any vacation. I lose vacation time every year. Q: But how many days can you accumdate? A: Only up to forty. And 1'11 have sixty some at the fbst of the year if I haven't taken any of mine. Q: And you're not go* to take it? A: No, I'm not going to take It. I've got to get this spot ming to suit me. When it suits me, I'll take some tsme off, And now we've got to press all of Lincoln's laundry, SO it won't suit me until its done. You've got to have things to sat you. Would you like to see ow poundage we are doing now? Q: If I could, yes. A: If11 get you the paper. (Tape stops and starts again) We 're doing the worst job we 've ever done and the plant is the dmiest it's ever
21 Eleanor DeLong 19 been because we're short of help. Q: How mny people do you have workhg here now? A: We are supposed to have ninety-seven, Right at the mment I have five on leave of absence-they're supposed to give me temporary help. I have one vacancy, and I have one woman that is off. She's on sick and vacation time and at the end of that time she will retire. She's on a doctor's certificate and she's using up all her time. Besides that I have two that are going on leave--one is in St. John's Hospital with a shattered wrist and one is going in for ear surgery. But you always have a variance of people that are out. And, as I said, I have one who is now a patient here. But as long as he gets out he will come back on the job as an enrployee; he's a vol- untary patient, I have several that have been patients. In fact, the girl that was up there a mment ago talking to me has been a patierrt. She was here for six mnths when she was sixteen. That's my foster daughter. I took her f'rom heye into my home. Welfare, She was an ADC-Child Q: Does your husbard work at Jacksonville? A: JMy husband is a retired truck driver, teamsters. He retired about two years ago. He drove a school bus for a while but they got the best of him. He quit. He isn't well. Q: So he doesn't work here? A: Well, no. I wouldn't let my husband work out here. These truck
22 Eleanor DeLong 20 drivers out here don t know how to work, They don ' t. They were political until recently and if you're political, why, you don't tm you ought to work, My husband's always been a teamster sincewell, he was a teamster when we were married. Then he was In the service for three and a half yews and then he came back and he worked in an elevator for a while, Then he went back to truck driving. He liked it. Then he had surgery in 1968, and surgery agah in 1970 and he hasn't been well since. Q: Do you remember much about the Depression, and its effect on Jacksonville State Hospital? A: Oh, yes. They cut our salaries. We were mking $60 a month. They cut our salmies to $54 ard took out $6 a month, And what they did with it, I wouldn't know. But, anyway, we was on the payroll for $60 and we got $54. That was why they had the big political turnover. &fore the Depression nobody wanted a job. But during the Depression, everybody wanted them. So, when the Democrats got in, they replaced a good many of the old employees with Demcrats who had not worked here before. But you couldn't buy a job so they wanted them. I should remember it. Ply mother lost the house she only owed $100 on. And I had to stop college. I remember the Depression. They rented a barn; they got the whole-aain wheat and cooked it for cereal. I've eaten it because I ate here. At that time I was living here on the pounds. And, in the kitchen they saved the tallow from beef arid used it to make hot dogs. Now this my mother said. See, I remember when they planted all their vegetables, killed their own hogs, and had all their own dairy cattle for their