COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA SENATE ENVIRONMENT AND COMMUNICATIONS LEGISLATION COMMITTEE. Estimates. (Public) TUESDAY, 16 OCTOBER 2012 CANBERRA

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1 COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA Proof Committee Hansard SENATE ENVIRONMENT AND COMMUNICATIONS LEGISLATION COMMITTEE Estimates (Public) TUESDAY, 16 OCTOBER 2012 CANBERRA CONDITIONS OF DISTRIBUTION This is an uncorrected proof of evidence taken before the committee. It is made available under the condition that it is recognised as such. BY AUTHORITY OF THE SENATE [PROOF COPY]

2 Tuesday, 16 October 2012 Senate Page 37 less confident you would be in the result. You would tend to want to stick to broader areas with a general equilibrium modelling. CHAIR: My experience in the modelling has been with free trade agreements. We would be the richest nation in the world if it had all come true according to the models, which were general equilibrium models. What other aspects are you feeding into your analysis? You have the general equilibrium model. What other features are there? Mr Galeano: Are you referring to monitoring and evaluating the impacts of the plan going forward? CHAIR: Yes. Mr Galeano: We have not yet sorted exactly what it is we will do on this front, but there will probably be a couple of things. We probably would do some broad general equilibrium modelling to assess what is going on in the longer term in the basin. What we are beginning at the moment is a process of figuring out how we will go about monitoring the impacts of the Basin Plan, so we will be going out and talking to communities and trying to develop a series of indicators that we can monitor through time things to do with population changes and trends and real estate values; there are a whole pile of things we could think about using. We have not yet figured out what we would do. But we will be doing that over the next six months. From then on we will then assess against those criteria that have been agreed. CHAIR: Are you doing this internally or are you getting external advice as to the robustness of the approach? It is not a model you are using; it is an approach. Mr Galeano: That is right. It is a framework. At the moment ABARES is doing some work for us on conceptual frameworks what indicators would you use, what framework would you use? There is a draft report which we are still going through with them. In addition to that we want to go out and speak to some of the local councils and some of the people in the areas and get their advice on what the appropriate set of indicators would be to look at. That is what we are doing over the next several months. CHAIR: Thanks. Senator Bilyk? Senator BILYK: I was after an update on how the stormwater harvesting and reuse program is going. I am specifically interested in any information on how the program in Derwent Park in Hobart is going. Ms Harwood: The Derwent Park project received a total of $2.6 million in Australian government funding. The project will collect stormwater from the sites' stormwater detention facilities and then treat it in an existing water treatment plant designed to remove heavy metal contamination. The project will increase the water storage capacity at the zinc smelter and construct a reverse osmosis plant and water distribution infrastructure. The additional infrastructure will enable treated water to replace potable water usage at the location by up to 32 per cent. In summary it basically reduces potable water usage at the zinc smelter by up to 32 per cent and it reduces demand for potable water by over 800 megs a year. It reduces the impact of run-off from the site into the Derwent River. Senator BILYK: Can carbon offsets address the carbon impact of any of those projects? I am happy for you to take that on notice. Ms Harwood: Yes. Senator BILYK: I think we are up to the third round now. Is that correct? Ms Harwood: That is right. The proponents who have received funding offers under the third round of the stormwater grants have now been announced and we are in the process of negotiating those contracts with the successful applicants. Senator BILYK: Is there an end date for when those successful applicants have to complete their projects? Ms Harwood: In general the aspiration is that, as soon as we negotiate the contract, as quickly as we can, and then they proceed with the works as fast as they can. But all the projects are different, so they would have their own natural time lines according to the complexity and scale of the project. Senator BILYK: Thanks. CHAIR: Mr Galeano, in terms of developing your program for the next few months, what consultations are you taking from communities who may be affected by your analysis? You are dealing with experts; what about the local community? Mr Galeano: Yes. What we want to do is talk to people like local councils, irrigators and other people out there to figure out the best set of indicators we can use. So we want to talk to people on the ground so that they can give us insights on what things are sensible to monitor and what things are not. The other thing is that we

3 Page 38 Senate Tuesday, 16 October 2012 want to try to avoid the situation where we have 10 different people going out, doing 10 different assessment methodologies and coming up with 10 different answers. We would like to try to bring that together as much as possible so that we do not confuse ourselves in years to come. CHAIR: Thanks very much. That concludes the questions for the Murray-Darling Basin Authority and officers in 4.1. Environmental Water Office [12:20] CHAIR: We now turn to outcome 6. I call officers from the department in relation to program 6.1, Protection and restoration of environmental assets, together with officers from the Commonwealth Environmental Water Office. Mr Parker, would you like to make an opening statement? Mr Parker: No, Chair; we are at the committee's disposal. CHAIR: Senator Joyce. Senator JOYCE: How many staff does the Commonwealth Environmental Water Office employ at the moment? Mr Parker: I will have to take the precise question on notice. I could find it for you in the course of the hearing. Senator JOYCE: When you get it, just get back to us. Has the government appointed a replacement for Mr Ian Robinson as Commonwealth Environmental Water Holder? Mr Parker: Yes, it has, Senator. That would be me. Senator JOYCE: You? Mr Parker: Yes. Senator JOYCE: Congratulations, Mr Parker! Mr Parker: It will only be for, hopefully, a temporary period. Senator JOYCE: Bad luck, Mr Parker. Mr Parker: And the answer to your previous question is 55 persons. Senator JOYCE: Excellent. How much water did the Commonwealth Environmental Water Holder use in ? Dr Banks: We used about 680 gigalitres of water last year. Senator JOYCE: Okay. You were allocated 1,292 gigs in ; so what do you do with the balance? Dr Banks: The balance of the water is carried over for future use. Senator JOYCE: Did you say 'held over'? Dr Banks: Yes. Senator JOYCE: This is important. Where are you storing it? Dr Banks: We are entitled to a share of the water that is held in storage in different storages across the basin. We carried over approximately 200 gigalitres in the southern connected basin, which would be held in the public storages system. Senator JOYCE: So it is held in public storages. Do you pay anything to the states for that any rent to the states for holding that water in public storages? Mr Parker: The Commonwealth Environmental Water Holder pays the same charges that irrigators and everybody else does. Senator JOYCE: So in an area such as the one that I live in, St George, if you purchase 100 gigs, then you are going to need your share, probably another 50 gigs or so, so it is going to be 150 gigs, most of which is opportunity flood harvesting. Where are you going to store that water? The only public storage in the system holds 89 gigs and you are going to have 150, so where are you actually going to store this water? Mr Parker: In the unregulated parts of the basin, with entitlements for extraction that are held, we would not be extracting that water, so the water would remain in the river and flow downstream. Senator JOYCE: So you would just count it as it went through? Mr Parker: Yes. Senator JOYCE: Would you be storing any water from that area?

4 Page 78 Senate Tuesday, 16 October 2012 Mr Scott: Yes. There is competitive tension in the market place and there is no doubt that that is one of the factors that multichannelling has brought to bear in the domestic market. Senator BIRMINGHAM: In answers to questions on notice No. 68 indicates that ABC1 and ABC2 acquisitions budget has fallen for several consecutive years from around $32.5 million in to $30.7 million in to 29.6 million in Mr Scott: Yes. Senator BIRMINGHAM: Is there any scope for you to stem those falls or is that going to continue? I assume that is an indication that funds have had to be reallocated to other parts of the organisation. Mr Scott: One of the challenges we have these are issues the minister is well aware of and we talk about them is that there is extraordinary audience demand and expectation around our ability to deliver the new digital content as well as delivering the content we have traditionally delivered. If you take a snapshot of the ABC over recent years, you see that our audiences have enormously benefit from the additional funding that has allowed new quality Australian drama, the children's channel, the money the ABC found to inject into and create News 24, but some of these things are expensive. We have had enormous success with iview, with now more than four million plays a month. Every month we have seen increasing audiences and increasing audience appreciation. I know the minister was very appreciative that he could watch Doctor Who on iview ahead of it being broadcast on television, and hundreds of thousands of our audience joined him in appreciating that. There are additional costs with that. So we have to manage our priorities within our budget and at times we have to make tough decisions. What I love more money the acquisitions? Yes, I would, but we just need to juggle our priorities as best we can. I think the market is a little bit fluid. I would say in recent months there has been some programming which has become more available to us which perhaps six or nine months ago was not as available to us because of pressures existing in commercial television. Senator BIRMINGHAM: In promoting both your acquired content as well as Australian generated content or the like, who makes decisions as to where and how to place advertising for programs and what the advertising budgets for different programs are? Mr Scott: Are you talking about external advertising? Senator BIRMINGHAM: External advertising in particular. Mr Scott: That will depend somewhat, Senator. Finally those decisions rest in our television division. We have an excellent head of marketing. I think we are trying to do a little more marketing around our programs than we have in the past, in part because even though the best part of nine in 10 Australians believe we provide a valuable service and more than 70 per cent Australians tune in each week, we are trying to get as many people as we can to find our products. So if we have a big new drama then we will attempt to promote that so that people are aware that it is on, particularly if it is not running for 10 or 12 weeks and it is just there as a telemovie or over a relatively short run. Senator Conroy: Like Jack Irish. Mr Scott: Like Jack Irish two excellent telemovies but not enough time to grow an audience. That is the kind of program you might promote externally. Decisions are made around that in the marketing division within Television; they make that call. Senator BILYK: I want to ask about the promotion and advertising of internally produced programs. I noticed that the ABC Auction Room show is back on in Tassie Mr Scott: Around Australia, Senator. Senator BILYK: Yes, but it is made in Tassie. I did not see any advertising for it. I am wondering how much advertising there was for it. The timeslot has changed, as well. Mr Scott: I would have to take that on notice. There are two different kinds of promotion. There is the promotion we do externally, and we do a relatively little amount of that. That might be billboards or newspaper ads and the like. The second kind is internal promotion. Again, our Television division will make a call on that. We have a finite amount of space and they can make the decision on where best to invest to build the biggest audience. It is not just on television; it could also be on radio or on our online site. I will have to take on notice the specific promotion schedule for Auction Room. Senator BILYK: Can you also tell us how much money was spent on that promotion. Mr Scott: Yes, but lot of it will just be an edit that is done internally with internal resources.

5 Tuesday, 16 October 2012 Senate Page 79 Senator BILYK: That is fine, but I would like to know. One could be cynical and say the timeslot has changed and it did not get much advertising, and one might wonder whether there was a potential there for Tasmanian production to be stopped. Having said that, I would like to know whether there are any other TV productions being looked at for development in Tasmania. Mr Scott: I am not aware of that at the moment. I have not been briefed on anything. Senator BILYK: Can you take it on notice and let me know? Mr Scott: Yes, I will. Senator BILYK: There is production capacity in Hobart that could be used for the development of short programs, so one would hope that in the interests of Tasmania in general but also those staff people in Tasmania that there will be some sort of future for them. Mr Scott: Yes, I understand that view. Senator BILYK: Are you able to tell me if ABC staff will be working on making any programs? You cannot tell me about the future of production in Tassie? Mr Scott: No decision has been made around a change in Tasmania at this point. Senator BILYK: Is this likely to be the last series of Auction Room? Mr Scott: I have received no advice on that. I do not know. Senator BILYK: You must plan ahead. You must have some idea of what is going to happen in Tasmania. Mr Scott: We have dozens of programs being made around the country. Senator BILYK: But not in Tasmania, and my specific interests is around what is going to happen to the production units in Tasmania. Mr Scott: I appreciate that, Senator I have no news for you around that at all. Senator BILYK: Can you write to me when something is determined so that we know what is going on? Mr Scott: Yes. Broadly, of course I am aware of the issues in Tasmania. When we developed a television strategy around our production some little time ago now, we indicated that we are committed to a model of internal and coproduction and acquisition. We talked about a percentage of airtime that goes to internal production; we talked about wanting to make production outside Sydney and Melbourne. Already I would suggest that, outside news, we are making television in four different locations internally and that is far more than any other network in the country. It is a challenge for us to work out how best we invest to have the critical mass of production that allows that production to take place at efficient levels exactly the point that you are making. That is what we are still trying to work through. Senator BILYK: So what is the time line on working that through? Mr Scott: It is an ongoing process, but I can say that it would be irresponsible for us to be making internal production all around the country if it was at a scale that made that production very expensive to make. We want to receive a good return on the taxpayer funding, but nor do I want there to be a model where we are doing all our production, say, in Sydney. So we are continuing to try to work that through. Senator BILYK: This is my last question. The concern is that once you wind things down CHAIR: I am sorry. We have five minutes each. That was the deal. Senator LUDLAM: I will traverse these fairly fast and I suspect you will have to pack a bunch of this stuff on notice because we are so time constrained. In relation to the audio description trial, what kind of feedback have you had from the blind or vision impaired community? Mr Scott: I think there were two levels. I will give you the detail on notice. I think there was minimal response to the trial once we started it, but in recent days there has been a campaign to have that trial continue. The noise has been significantly louder from people who are using it who want it to be continued. It is a pilot, though. We are funded for a period of time. Senator LUDLAM: That has been my feedback as well, actually, that it has been seen as a success. The reason that the volume has been turned up, so to speak, is that it was seen as a success. Mr Scott: Yes, that could be right. It is a pilot going on and then we will review the impact of it. The analysis of its success or otherwise comes at the end of the pilot. Senator LUDLAM: Which is how much further away?

6 Tuesday, 16 October 2012 Senate Page 83 Senator Conroy: Are you talking about community radio or 2GB? Senator WILLIAMS: Commercial radio. Ms McNeill: Ordinarily, we run a complaints driven investigation and enforcement program, so, in the situation that you are describing, someone would bring a complaint to us, raising a concern that a licence condition had been breached, and we would conduct an investigation, prepare a report and make a finding of breach or nonbreach, depending on what it was. In the event that it was a breach finding, there are a range of formal measures which are available to us. Those include issuing a remedial direction, issuing a civil penalty order, potentially referring the matter for prosecution, or suspending and cancelling the licence. They are the formal measures available to us. We also have the option, if the licensee is willing, of accepting an enforceable undertaking from the licensee. Again depending on the nature of the breach, it may be that the breach is admitted and it was due to an oversight or a process failure, and they undertake to put in place specific measures which address those systemic problems. Senator WILLIAMS: I have a question about commercial radio licences. In regional areas we have a lot of commercial stations now where they may not have management in position and they may not have technicians employed there. If they go off the air, sometimes for hours, through electronic problems, computer problems or whatever, have they got anything in their licence that says, 'You have got to have continuous radio,' or 'You have got to keep the show moving,' or the ball rolling? If they just go off the air for hours, would you see that as a problem? Ms McNeill: Not if it was an isolated incident, no. Mr Chapman: Again, Senator, you are talking about commercial radio, so it is not community. Senator WILLIAMS: No. It is commercial. You know what it is like in the media these days. They have had to rationalise and use satellites out of city stations et cetera, through networks and so on. People come to me complaining that in various areas not in one particular area a station was out for hours and there was nothing on, sometimes overnight, all night, because there was no-one around to reset the computer or whatever. That is not a problem? That is acceptable, is it, under your standards? Ms McNeill: I do not think it is a breach of one of the licence conditions in the schedule to the act, but I can double-check that for you. Senator WILLIAMS: You would think that, if someone is granted a licence, part of that licence conditions would be to provide the service, entertainment, advertising, whatever but then it is out for hours. It seems to be reasonably frequent, and I just thought it might have been a problem, or you might have seen it as a problem. Ms McNeill: It is not a matter about which we have received complaints, to my knowledge, but certainly if there was anxiety we would look at it. But I do not think that there is a specific licence condition requiring continuous broadcast not in the standard licence conditions. Senator WILLIAMS: Fair enough. That is one of those things that a couple of people have complained about and I thought I would just raise it with you, but obviously it is not too much of a problem. Senator BILYK: Welcome, everyone. It is nice to see you all here. Mr Chapman, you mentioned in your opening statement scams and things. Can you advise us what ACMA is doing to protect Australians from scams? Mr Chapman: Ms McNeill has principal responsibility for scams, and I will let her address that. I know in my introductory remarks I indicated that the number of complaints is going up, but the range of work we are doing in this space is increasing, and the effectiveness, counterintuitively, is also increasing. I might let Ms McNeill drill down into the details. Ms McNeill: On the question of scams and dealing with the perpetrators of those scams, we have no formal role, but I think we have been described by the Australian Crime Commission as canaries in the coalmine. Because of our role in administering the Do Not Call Register and in receiving complaints and notifications about spam, we often get early visibility of scams that are doing the rounds. As my chairman indicated, we have had a very significant increase in the number of incidents of spam reported to us, and the level of telemarketing complaints is also on the increase. In terms of dealing with spam, telemarketing complaints and scams, we have a range of strategies in place. Enforcement is the most obvious strategy, and our formal enforcement role is, as I indicated, confined to spam and breaches of the telemarketing legislation. We have had good success in those formal enforcement roles. In the past, for example, we have obtained penalties in the Federal Court in the order of $25 million in a particular spam prosecution that we brought. But, as I say, being the canary in the coalmine we have a very important role gathering intelligence for sister agencies. So we often make referrals to other Commonwealth regulators who have a formal role in forcing the

7 Page 84 Senate Tuesday, 16 October 2012 law about scams and also engage with our international counterparts in this space. You will appreciate that telemarketing and spam activity has no respect for national boundaries anymore. So in order to find a solution to spam and telemarketing and in order to tackle the scams that underpin some of those breaches it is necessary to engage with our international counterparts. Senator BILYK: I thought the ACMA had played a role in the Microsoft scam. Ms McNeill: We did indeed. Senator BILYK: It has been ongoing for a number of years. Ms McNeill: You are absolutely right, and that is a really good example of the canary in the coalmine phenomenon. At one point around 50 per cent of the complaints that were coming to us about telemarketing were taken up by Microsoft imposter scams. For any senators who are not familiar with that particular scam, it involved telemarketing calls being made by people purporting to be representatives of Microsoft, purporting to have identified a particular problem on the PC in household it is a pretty safe bet because there are many households that have PCs and then either offering to sell a product which was available for free or available at lower cost or offering to cure the problem by taking control of the consumer's computer. So that was the nature of the scam. We had very high visibility of that and we worked not only with the ACCC, the domestic agency here, but, critically, with the Federal Trade Commission in the United States. Because of information we were in a position to provide to the FTC, they were able to investigate and prosecute people who they believe are responsible for this scam. So that is a great example of our international efforts bringing real results for consumers around the world but also for Australian consumers. Mr Chapman: I should add, to give you a feel for the dramatic impact you can have, that since the scam was busted with the freezing of assets and the closing down of those operations complaints in this space to the Do Not Call Register in the two weeks since it was announced have decreased by 20 per cent. I mentioned the 226,000 complaints, inquires and reports about scam generally. It gives you a feel for the leverage you can get with effective action. In introducing the ACMA into the international conference call, the chairman of the FTC indicated to the audience that the ACMA was amongst the world's leaders in effective enforcement action in this space. Senator BILYK: That is really great to hear. I think I asked this question last estimates. If my memory serves me correctly, the answer was 'not yet' or words to that effect. Have you been able to develop any promotional or educational materials for seniors in regard to scams and that sort of stuff? Ms McNeill: The answer is not scam-specific educational material. Because of the role that we have in assisting people with the Do Not Call Register, at the time the chairman participated in the announcement of the Microsoft imposter scam we released consumer guidance. But it is general consumer guidance, not targeting older Australians specifically, about what to do when you are confronted with a telemarketing call and you are at all uncertain of its legitimacy. So we do have an educative role and we do have educative material in this space, but it is not specifically targeted to older Australians. Having said that, we can have at least based on instances of specific feedback that we have had some confidence that the message is getting through. Very recently a colleague of mine took a call from a man who said that his elderly mother had access to the ACMA advice about what to do, and when she had received one of these calls she hung up immediately. At least with those sorts of stories we know that at least some older Australians are understanding and using the educative materials that we have available for the general population. Senator BILYK: Thank you for that. Senator IAN MACDONALD: Mr Brumfield, who is not here, has been corresponding with the Barcaldine Regional Council. The issue they have is similar to that of most of the councils in south-western and western Queensland. It relates to MPEG2 and MPEG4. By way of preface to my question, as I understand it conscious that we are very short of time, so I am summarising you are insisting that it be MPEG2; they want to do it in MPEG4. You want it in 2 because people with old televisions Senator Conroy: Old? Senator IAN MACDONALD: New televisions, is it? They may not get MPEG4 without a box. The Barcaldine council, which wrote at length on 27 September and I have written a note saying I support exactly what they are saying say that the 4 Senator Conroy: Do you know how many televisions have MPEG4 compatibility? Senator IAN MACDONALD: The 4 is a cheaper version and the 2 will be going out of fashion in two or three years, so they will have to redo it then.

8 Page 94 Senate Tuesday, 16 October 2012 changes to that. But the bottom line is that this is being implemented in a fashion that has caused relatively few ripples for what has been quite a significant shift. Ms Spaseski might want to refer to the first two points. Ms Spaseski: Yes. Fundamentally, we are moving from a regulatory model, as our acting chair explained. There is very little incentive in a regulatory model. Under our contract arrangement, we look to performance and monitor performance on a much more regular basis. We meet with the provider on a much more regular basis. We talk about incentives to improve service and delivery and we are also in a position to negotiate new solutions throughout the course of the agreement. So, all of a sudden, we are moving into a relationship which is more flexible, more innovative and more open than would have been dealt with under a regulatory model. There has been little scope for competition in that type of regulatory model. With the agreement, whilst we do have agreements which ensure the delivery of those services by Telstra, we have review points built in. We also have a number clauses within our agreement which allow us to procure and test the market at earlier points if TUSMA feels that is necessary. With the voice migration component of that, yes, Telstra is our deliverer of last resort, but we are also inviting other providers. We have formally written to a significant number of providers asking them to review their position, in terms of their own customer base, when the NBN fibre comes through. As the areas of the NBN are declared ready for service, they may wish to participate in a grant scheme, which TUSMA will oversee and set standards for and which we will ensure is delivered with those providers who choose to be part of that migration process. [19:31] CHAIR: That concludes the questioning of TUSMA. Thank you for your attendance. I now call officers of the department in relation to program 1.3 broadcasting and digital television. Senator BILYK: I want to ask about the digital switchover and I specifically want to ask about the digital switchover in Tasmania, which is due to happen in April next year, I believe. As you are probably aware, Tasmania has always had problems with reception even with analogue because of the geography of the state. We have lots of black spots. I am wondering how those black spots might be dealt with how you are making sure that as many people as possible are able to access digital. Ms O'Loughlin: We are starting to do our work in Tasmania already. As you said, it is six months to switchover in Tasmania 9 April next year. We are very encouraged by the take-up rate. The conversion rate in Tasmania is sitting around 87 per cent, which is actually much higher than the national average of around 82 per cent. So we think Tasmanians are getting ready for digital on time. I think the main reason they have converted has been that, with the introduction of digital, we have been able to introduce a new television service into Tasmania. Before, there were only two commercial channels and the two nationals. Now, with digital, you get the full three commercial channels plus the two nationals plus all the multichannels. We think that is the main thing which has driven the high rates of take-up in Tasmania. But, as you said, the terrain and topography of Tasmania, while beautiful, make it quite difficult to get television signals into various areas. The government has funded the Viewer Access Satellite Television service so that people who are living in those black spot areas where, often, they have not even been able to get good analogue television are able, if they cannot get digital television, to apply for the VAST service. With that VAST service, they too will receive the full 16 digital multichannels. It means that, either terrestrially or via satellite, they can get the full range of services. I think that, to date, about 500 decoders have already been accessed for VAST in Tasmania. So people are already aware of it. We have also already progressed a few early switchovers in Tasmania and they have gone extremely well. We have had switchovers in this Bicheno, Swansea, Rosebery, Derby, Dover and Hillwood. We have six more early switchovers taking place in Tasmania in November and December that is when we turn off analogue signals and turn on digital the same day and those are progressing very well. Each area we go into has differences and unique elements, but we are hopeful that, through the rollout of VAST and the new terrestrial services, it will be a significant improvement to television services right across Tasmania. Senator Conroy: It is also important to note and I am sure that the good Tasmanian senator understands this that, at the moment, Tassie only has four analog channels. Senator BILYK: Yes, I know. Senator Conroy: And Channel 10 is not one of them. Senator BILYK: No; that is right. Senator Conroy: So this is a jump from four channels to 16, which I think partially explains the huge interest. Senator BILYK: I think it possibly does. Is VAST the one with the towers?

9 Tuesday, 16 October 2012 Senate Page 95 Ms O'Loughlin: No. VAST is delivered by satellite. It is a direct-to-home satellite service. People have a satellite dish and a set-top box in the home, and that delivers the full suite of multichannels plus regional news services and some radio services as well. Senator BILYK: I remember reading in the past couple of weeks I cannot quite remember where about the towers that local government might purchase. I cannot remember what they are called. Senator Conroy: That is NBN. Senator BILYK: Okay; I am a bit confused. Tasmania also has a very high population of elderly people and seniors. Are we doing anything to help those pensioners prepare for the switch-over and not just seniors, I suppose, but anyone on limited income? Ms O'Loughlin: The government's Household Assistance Scheme is now open in Tasmania. With that scheme, we write to people on various maximum rate pensions about nine months before switch-over, and we have just actually sent out our reminder letters, on 24 September, to those people to sign up early. So, if people are eligible if they have not converted to digital and they are on the maximum rate pensions we will install whatever they need in their home to convert them to digital, whether that is a set-top box, antennas or a full satellite service, if they need the VAST service. So we are on the ground doing that at the moment. Our communication strategy is really encouraging people to get in early, because we have a big schedule of rollouts and switch-overs next year, and we want people to sign up early to make sure that they are well and truly ready before the switch-off date on 9 April. Senator BILYK: What form does that support take? Ms O'Loughlin: In the home? Senator BILYK: Yes. Is it reimbursement? Ms O'Loughlin: No. We contract with lead contractors who will basically go into somebody's home. Firstly, we also work very closely with DHS, so the whole process is managed between us and DHS. DHS send out the eligibility letters, they handle the contacts from people so that we know that the letters are going to the right people and then our contractors will set up appointments, go into people's homes, find out exactly what they need to convert to digital and provide all that to them on the spot. Sometimes they need to go back again to make sure they have got it right, but, in the main, it goes into the home so they might get a satellite dish and a set-top box or they might get antenna work done. Importantly, for people in those positions, as a safety net program, we also make sure that there is 12 months of in-home support, so if anything goes wrong with their box, for example, they do not have to take it back to a shop; they can just call the suppliers and get things fixed. Over 110,000 households have been converted under that scheme across Australia, and there are about 60,000 people that we have written to in Tasmania. Senator IAN MACDONALD: I want to raise the issue of radio 4K1G in Townsville. I have written to the minister, who indicated in a response letter to me: 'The Indigenous Broadcasting Program does not allocate funding to support network content for remote radio services provided by the remote Indigenous media organisation. Radio 4K1G service is not an RIMO, but rather a stand-alone regional station licensed to serve only the Townsville radio market. Reconsidering the ongoing operation of the satellite service may assist the organisation to establish a more substantial financial position.' I thank the minister for the business advice to 4K1G. How does 4K1G go about getting a remote Indigenous media organisation qualification? It is a Townsville based radio station but its target audience has been, as well as Townsville, certainly Palm Island it is a very big Indigenous community, as you know and then all of the Cape and Gulf country of Queensland, which seems to get a better radio signal from Townsville than elsewhere. So it has for years been serving Indigenous listeners in that very, very wide area. Apparently, according to the minister's letter, which I accept, there has never been licence for that. So I am wondering how they would go about getting that licence and what funding might be available if they did have that certification. Ms O'Loughlin: I might need to take on notice the issue of how they get that licence, but I might be able to provide you some additional information about 4K1G. They have been licensed, as a community broadcasting licence, since 1992, and their current licence has an expiry date of 3 October Their broadcast footprint covers about 340,000 people in the Townsville area, where the Indigenous population, as you would know, is around 7.1 per cent. In 2012, TAIMA has received a number of funds from us, a number of grants from us. They had $310,000 in base funding, which came from the Indigenous Broadcasting Program. They had $25,000 in emergency assistance funding from the Community Broadcasting Foundation to cover wages and oncosts, and that was in June this year. They have also have had and I think you raised this, Senator, at the last estimates an additional $26,000