Susan Lacke. The Badass Project Transcript

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1 Johnny B. Truant: Hi everybody, it s Johnny B Truant from The Badass project. I am here today with Susan Lacke. She tells me that s the correct pronunciation which I would have totally messed up. And, Susan is a writer, she s a contributor to Nomeatathlete.com which is how I know her and several other publications. We just talk on Twitter and so forth and the thing that really made me decide to talk to her and I did the nomination was she mentioned she s been following The Badass Project. And, she mentioned something about her disability and I said what s your disability. And then she pointed me to a post on Nomeatathlete.com that called On Refusing to Settle and the Incredible Power of Denial in which she tells me that she s deaf. So, what we re going to do here is we had a hard time figuring out how to do this interview because normally I just talk outright with people and I can t do that and you can t do lip-reading over Skype and Susan says she doesn t know sign language. Not that I know it but she [ ]. So, what we re going to do is I will ask and then I m going to type to her and then what we ll do is maybe it s the first one I ll show that [126 ]. So, another fun thing on the Badass Project. So with that said, how are you Susan? Okay, so, what I ll do is I ll just say the I ll say the things for the benefit of anybody who can hear and then I ll type to Susan. So, that will be the way we ll go here. So the first question is: Could you tell the story of that post and how what made you write it and why? The tone of it was so interesting and that s why I m talking to you today. SL: Okay. Well, I had been writing for No Meat Athlete for about a year and [ ] the whole website asked me if I wanted to do some podcasts and some video blogging stuff like that and what happened basically was in that moment I had realized that I had been writing for [ ] and I had never told him that I was deaf and it was kind of a weird moment for me because I have never really been in that situation before. Most people when they meet me [they accept kind of different way ]. And I was debating for a long time about how [ ] because I didn t think that I should tell him because it might make him [ ] because I didn t want them to think first of all that I was some sort of liar because I had [ ] but also because I didn t want him to suddenly treat me that way. And I was really nervous about that so I talked with some friends and some family members and all of them basically said the same thing which is who gives a damn and so told Matt and Matt immediately said you need to tell the readers because this is something that s incredible. The fact that they didn t know it; the readers didn t know it; nobody knew it; it s pretty

2 remarkable. So I wrote the post and I had no idea it was going to response to that. It was overwhelmingly positive. It was like cool and so when you asked me if I wanted to be on Badass Project that was weird for me because you interview actual badass and so you interview people who do impossible things and they accomplish these amazing feats that I couldn t really never think of doing. And, [4:23] and I don t really think that [ ] but you seem to think so I am here. So, thank you. JBT: Okay. Well, that s the interesting thing is we were just talking about this today of how we define what a badass is. And one of the things that I thought is that it s we have for positioning said that in terms of physical disabilities of some sorts and what s coming more to the fore is that badass is a state of mind. And that particular post that you wrote is and we ll link to it, it was very much, it never occurred to me to say that I was deaf. SL: That s pretty much how I ve always been growing up when well, basically from the second that my parents found out that I was deaf. They basically said so what. And it was pretty cool because [ ] when I was 2½ I had already [ ] a normal kid. I was talking and I was singing and I was good at playing all the stuff. And, then I lost my hearing and I went back to crying; I went back to not communicating at all. I was actually [ ] all of these things and because [5:50] who said yup, it s sad. There s really nothing we can do about it. But [ ]. And so they took to a different doctor and this doctor was cool. He said yeah well there s not much we can do but I m not going to no by the way, here s is what we ll do. So you come back in a week and if you talk a new word I ll work with you. So they brought me back in a week and I had learnt two new words, Easter bun. And, that kind of set the tone for the rest of my life. I never felt that what I was supposed to. I tried to take it one step further. [ ] and I took that way too literally. And the thing that I wanted to do [ ] and it s pretty cool to see that kind support and it really saved me to see that attitude [ ]. So I really don t say I can t. [7:03] I ll at least try it. Most of the time it works out. Sometimes we have to make adjustment but nothing s impossible. So it s pretty cool. JBT: Well, let s talk about the power of denial as you defined it. And, the idea of basically sticking your head in the sand and saying we re not going to look at that is the sort of thing that a lot of people could say that s not facing reality but in your case it s been empowering. Can you tell me what that was about the denial both for you and your parents that anything was different?

3 SL: [7:50] when I had doctors saying that I was supposed to go to a school for the deaf because they know that I could go to a normal school. I use that term very loosely by the way, normal. But I never went to the school for the deaf. I went to regular schools with the regular kids and never thought anything of it. When kids start picking on me that I would come home crying my mom would say basically that the kids were picking on [8:33]. I wasn t anything special [ ] that I had to learn to stand up for myself. And so, that s when I started using humor as a way to cope and it was really something that s [8:44]. I wasn t like I needed special treatment because I m deaf and I m deaf. Sometimes I say things that s sound really funny or sometimes I m walking away and someone said something that I don t hear and I have no idea what happened; it s kind of funny. [ ] and I meet people or talk to people I never say oh you need to speak slowly for me as I try to keep up and if I met [some people] I said hey you might be keeping that I don t literally think like that. I ve never really been the type of person to say I need special treatment as I feel what [ ] play the hand I ve been dealt so. JBT: So, from the devil s advocate position, do you think that going to school for the deaf that you could have there would have been any benefit in that or do you think that going through the way that you did was better? SL: Okay. Well, that s not something for me to really speak on because I really don t know much about schools for the deaf. I really don t know much about deaf culture. I was never involved in deaf culture growing up. And it s not because I have anything against them, it s just because I went to a school with other students and I did the same thing that the other student kids did. And I never really labeled myself as a deaf person. So I know there are plenty of people who have gone to the school for the deaf and they ve gone on to be really successful. So I think really about the separate systems that [10:26] and what each person is willing to do. I m not going to lie I had to work really hard to get to the point where I am today. I don t know [ ] because [ ] for almost 22 years. I went to auditory training where I learnt how to lip read. I learnt how to make friends I had to really work hard at it. And I had to have a support system with teachers, parents, friends, family members, [ ] everyone who understood what I was trying to do and they didn t limit me [ ] but they also didn t [ ] me in anyway, they really pushed me. And, they encouraged me. So that was my situation. I topped one class in college for [ ] and I got B minus for that. [1130]. But it s just not something that they offered me teach, but for other people [1137] school for the deaf can absolutely [ ].

4 JBT: Okay. Let s talk about the reason you write for athletic sites, because I m curious whether your attitude regarding - screw that I m not going to do what people tell me to do translates into the athletic endeavors that you do. And, let s go into that. I know you do Ironman successfully. SL: Okay. [ ] completely off milks. I was not really an athlete of any sort growing up. So I still don t consider myself an athlete [ ], by the way. I m someone who does [12:21] and kayak, just that JBT: That s an athlete. SL: I started doing [ ] because someone that I love very much was [ ] and he made it look really easy and [ ] of some sort. I was doing [ ], I have signed up for half a marathon and basically my friend [ ] has taught me anybody can do [ ]. And so I just thought if anybody can do one alright why not me. And so I signed up. And, in hindsight [12:59] but it turned out to be one of the best thing that I ve ever done. And it s about pushing yourself and I feel like it s just an extension of what I ve been doing my entire life. I put myself through school, I graduated from high school, graduated from college early, I got my [13:19]; I put myself through college, put myself by the time I was 22 years old that s [13:24] just another thing that I m doing. I m kind of an overachiever, in case you haven t forget that. I think too that all of this athletic competition as it s really inspiring to see just everybody doing marathon, anybody can do a marathon, anybody can a 5K. And it s not about whether your ears work or not, it s not even about whether [13:55] anything like that; really anybody can do it. Just have to find the right way to do and how to do [ ] so that s what competition means to me. [ ] that s why I can do it, what I m capable of, that s why I m willing to put [14:13]. And I love it. And for me [14:15] writing for NoMeatAthlete [ ] writing for a [ } magazine what I find really odd because I m not a real writer and I m not good at athlete. Yeah, I have a column, a national one [14:34]. [ ] my currently boyfriend and it has been really wonderful [ ] introduced me to so many amazing people. And for that I ll be thankful. It s really helped me out more [ ], it s been really cool. JBT: Didn t you have didn t you lose a bunch of weight doing that too, like wasn t there a personal transformation? SL: Yeah, I was kind of fat. I was a little bit chubby. I became a vegetarian and began losing weight that way. Once I started losing weight I realized that my body was capable of doing some pretty cool things. So I decided to sign up for

5 [1521] and I had never run a race before. I mean I was involved in you know, that normal school sport stuff because I had to be. But I was never really athletic. So I just signed up for the race and it sold out and I ran it. And that was really cool. So I kept doing that. And it was never about losing the weight. But I did lose weight in the process and it was really something that was pretty cool to see but at the same time I swear everybody asked me how they can lose weight on the same diet that I was on. And, I was never on a diet. It s more about seeing what my body could do. It was pretty cool. JBT: One of the guys that I talked to recently and he may run before yours, Martin Sidney, has this thing about where people aren t disabled unless society imposes that on them. Basically the idea is adapt and if you can adapt something then you can do it. So can you talk a little bit about the adaptations that you ve had to make, I mean when you ride a bike typically you want to be able to hear the traffic and that sort of thing; when you said you swim and how did you hear the starting gun and all that. SL: As far as adaptation and accommodation I try really hard to do these things as normally as possible. I don t really make a big deal out of that and when I go to races I don t really ask for [ ] special accommodation [ ] so that anything happen I get a penalty, or, you know [ ] so that they are aware that I [17:17] and I never had a problem with that. For whatever reason something [ ] or whatever I always will [ ]. And along with the normal medical information I have [ ]. So that way I can communicate to [ ] or whatever [ ]. I go in to the swim just like everybody else [ ] and I figure I don t really need to hear the starting gun for that, when people [ ] to me, I go off. And it always worked for me. And the bike I don t usually wear my [ ] during the race and that s because the race [ ]. So I m [ ] when I m on the roads [ ] I always will assume [ ] I always tell my boyfriend [ ] where I m going to be, when I could be back just in case anything happens. But I tried to be very aware of my surrounding and I try to ride on roads that have [18:24] traffic. As I m unable to find that type of situation then I usually [18:34] so that I don t have to deal with bad [ ] and not hearing somebody come up behind me. [ ] And I go and I just keep going. It s never really been [19:30]. Sometimes when things get kind of [ ]. I always try to have someone toward the finish line [ ] because [ ] it s still pretty amazing. And, the coolest thing was [ ] I didn t even need my [ ] that you could feel it in your bones. That was so amazing. I don t think I could have asked for a better finish to that race.

6 JBT: What s that like because that this is I always like to talk to people about things that are unique to them in their situation and their condition and their endeavors that I don t understand and then people might not understand but that notion of feeling sound like when Marlee Matlin who is also deaf was on Dancing with the Stars she was able to dance because she could feel the beat. Can you explain that to me? SL: I can actually kind of relate to what she was saying because the [ ] even though I do have to [ ] I don t feel at the same time when I [ ] and [ ]. And, when I was in high school I was actually in a band; I play the [ ]. And, you would not believe I was actually really good at it. I won awards with that. And what they would do was [ ]. They moved me to [ ]. And what I would do I would watch the director [20:40] and that always kept me on the beat. And so [ ]. In my classroom I told my students if [ ] I m not going to hear you and so if you raise your hand I ll see that s great. I had people [ ] and so my students are pretty cool with that pretty much everybody knows that [ ] ultimate ways to get my attention. [ ] or watching a movie or something [ ] it s really about the visual and the feel of the sound; not so much about what it sounds like. I don t know how [ ] to explain that. [21:53] most people are able to compensate for the loss of one [ ]. JBT: It s almost like you have a superpower. I m wondering if that whole thing about your other people usually say with blind people where the other sense has sharpened. And it sounds like that s what you re describing. Do you feel like you re so for instance, when I was talking and I m asking questions sometimes you nod at appropriate times as if you can hear me and I know you can t. So I m just wondering if you re picking up visual cues from me [22:30] if you re picking up cues that I don t even know that I m giving. SL: [22:37] and that s something that a lot of people find really hard to believe of me as that I m able to read their lips and not [ ] what s going on and still be okay. And as I said before I don t know sign language. I know maybe four [ ] in sign language and that s pretty much it. And, [ ] in order to [ ] a normal life I really do need to be able to communicate with other people and [ ] that s how [ ] a lot of people kind of really hope to [ ] and an older lady came up to me and said talking to me and she said so what do you do for a living and I said oh I m a college professor. And she goes oh, how do you teach. And I said in a normal classroom with my students when we you know classroom set up and she said but you re deaf how do you communicate with people. And, I said what do you think we re doing right now. And, she looked at me for a second and then

7 she goes, [ ] and what completely condescending and [ ] but that s kind of how people have always found when they meet me because they are not really sure what to make of me. And you [ ] deaf person that most people have met or talked to most people see them [ ] and so it s not something that they can really [ ] and when they talk to me they re not really sure if I m deaf or I m hearing because I talk kind of funny but at the same time I m not using sign language. So [ ] for most people. [ ] for me to be able to learn how to lip read and how to speak; and it s nothing [ ]. JBT: So just for a personal example. I m diabetic and I for a long time was really insistent that people not treat me any differently like to the point where I was, I didn t want to tell people and that sort of thing, when I was a teenager. And, I m wondering if you re not knowing sign language and all that and this whole power of denial thing is sort of is in a way sort of an FU to the notion of being different and just what that s all about. Because, I see some of the same threads between us. SL: It is kind of. It wasn t a choice that I made when I was younger. [2534] and I m really glad they made that choice. The whole idea of not knowing sign language eventually did become a [ ] to the [ ] because it was [ ]. I m told all the time that I need to go and get cochlear implant and [ ] some audio test [ ]. They told me Susan you would be so much better if you have cochlear implant and they [ ] and that s something [ ] is right now I m doing really well with what I ve got and if it s not [ ]. Maybe someday in the future I may get to a point where I need a cochlear implant. But now I m okay with [ ] and as most of you [ ] I m not worried about and so that might [ ]. [ ] I don t think of anything particular to being deaf but I really like proving people wrong [ ]. JBT: If you get along fine without it, why would you get a cochlear implant? Is there anything that there would there be any point to that? SL: [27 29:09] some people think that if I get a cochlear implant I would hear more and also my speech would improve [ ] but at the same time it s not that big of a deal for me. I ve never had anybody give me self grief for being that or for having a bad sense that I felt [ ]. I don t think [ ] honestly. [ ] I heard about people who get cochlear implants [ ] because when you get the implants you have to really learn how to hear and [ ] learning a new language. And I figured if [ ] so I m okay with not having a cochlear implant for now.

8 JBT: but it doesn t seem like it will impact your life any if the argument is that you would be able to hear more and that you would speak more like I do I guess I don t see what the point is if you haven t been hearing all this time and have been doing fine. I mean there s no demonstrable change right. SL: [ ] I used to and I m managing with what I have and there s no reason to go out and modify that. [ ] for me to go out and start from scratch again. So I m not worried about that at all and I m pretty good at [ ] people know including doctors and [ ] who told me [ ]. So for the time being [ ] JBT: That s one of the few things that I personally [ ] this project is about is what works for you rather than external societal definition of what normal would be. Much like my friend Warren McDonald who said that originally he got the long prosthetic legs after losing his legs because he that was kind of what was normal and then realized it didn t make sense. I just really celebrate that attitude, I supposed. SL: Absolutely. And I d really want to try to convey anything that I do and when I have people ask me [ ] what should I do, what [ ] and always be encouraging of what the child wants to. Later on when I have people asked me you know what would you do in the situation if you were put in a really difficult prison, different circumstance what would you do and I said it s not for me to say. That s your decision to make and it is not [30:19] every person has that individuality, they have their own needs, they have their own [3031]. And so it was for me. I didn t necessarily [ ]. [ ] because what works for him works really well for him. What works for him does not necessarily going to work for another person in a very similar circumstance because maybe that person [ ] or maybe that person doesn t have the same [ ] so you will have to take on case by case basis rather than dumping everybody into one [ ] label or [ ] because [ ] individual. JBT: So in conclusion, since you re only deaf, do you still feel that you aren t badass enough? SL: I am not badass, enough. Just because I don t really hear anything [ ] nothing to do with [ ] in spite of me being deaf. [ ]. I wake up; I go for a run, I go to work, I play with my dogs, I swim, I ride my bike, [ ] so maybe one day if I find a cure for cancer or maybe one day you know [ ] then maybe I ll consider myself badass myself but [ ].

9 JBT: Well if it s any consolation Martin Sibli who is he has spinal muscular atrophy like Jon Marrow and he has very limited use of his limbs at the end of the interview he said, okay did you get what you wanted because I really kind of don t think that I m badass enough. So you re in good company. SL: Ah, then maybe Martin and I need to hand out and talk about how nonbadass we are. And maybe if we, you know, put the two of us together we can come up with something badass enough. JBT: Excellent. SL: Cool. JBT: Okay. Well, that s about it. So I just want to thank you for being here this has been easy, this typing thing; it hasn t been hard or weird at all. So I just wanted to thank you for being with me here today on. SL: Thank you for having me. I finally have fulfilled my lifelong dream of meeting you. Even if it is only via webcam but thank you really for having me. JBT: Excellent. Well, thank you very much and this is Johnny B. Truant, with Susan Lacke signing off for.

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