AGENDA. Darren Johnson AM Steve O'Connell AM Murad Qureshi AM Dr Onkar Sahota AM Richard Tracey AM

Transcription

1 v12015 AGENDA Meeting TransportCommittee Date Thursday15October2015 Time 10.00am Place Chamber,CityHall,TheQueen's Walk,London,SE12AA Copiesofthereportsandanyattachmentsmaybefoundat MostmeetingsoftheLondonAssemblyanditsCommitteesarewebcastliveat meetings. MembersoftheCommittee ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair) CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair) KemiBadenochAM TomCopleyAM KemiBadenochAM DarrenJohnsonAM SteveO'ConnellAM MuradQureshiAM DrOnkarSahotaAM RichardTraceyAM AmeetingoftheCommitteehasbeencalledbytheChairoftheCommitteetodealwiththebusiness listedbelow. MarkRoberts,ExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat Wednesday7October2015 FurtherInformation Ifyouhavequestions,wouldlikefurtherinformationaboutthemeetingorrequirespecialfacilities pleasecontact:dalelangford,principalcommitteemanager;telephone: ; FormediaenquiriespleasecontactAlisonBell;Telephone: ; authorwhosedetailsareattheendofthereport. Thismeetingwillbeopentothepublic,exceptforwhereexemptinformationisbeingdiscussedas notedontheagenda.aguideforthepressandpubliconattendingandreportingmeetingsoflocal governmentbodies,includingtheuseoffilm,photography,socialmediaandothermeansisavailable atwww.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/openness-in-meetings.pdf. Thereisaccessfordisabledpeople,andinductionloopsareavailable.Thereislimitedunderground parkingfororangeandbluebadgeholders,whichwillbeallocatedonafirst-comefirst-servedbasis. PleasecontactFacilitiesManagementon inadvanceifyourequireaparkingspaceor furtherinformation.

2 Ifyou,orsomeoneyouknow,needsacopyoftheagenda,minutesorreports inlargeprintorbraille,audio,orinanotherlanguage,thenpleasecalluson CertificateNumber:FS80233

3 Agenda TransportCommittee Thursday15October ApologiesforAbsenceandChair'sAnnouncements ToreceiveanyapologiesforabsenceandanyannouncementsfromtheChair. 2 MembershipoftheCommittee TheCommitteeisrecommendedtonote,furthertothedecisionsoncommittee membershipsagreedbytheassemblyatitsextraordinaryplenarymeetingon 16September2015,theappointmentofKemiBadenochAMasaMemberofthe Committee.TheMembershipoftheCommitteeisnowasfollows: ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair) CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair) KemiBadenochAM TomCopleyAM DarrenJohnsonAM SteveO'ConnellAM MuradQureshiAM DrOnkarSahotaAM RichardTraceyAM 3 DeclarationsofInterests(Pages1-4) TheCommitteeisrecommendedto: (a) NotetheofficesheldbyAssemblyMembers,assetoutinthetableat AgendaItem3,asdisclosablepecuniaryinterests; (b) NotethedeclarationbyanyMember(s)ofanydisclosablepecuniaryinterests inspecificitemslistedontheagendaandthenecessaryactiontakenbythe Member(s)regardingwithdrawalfollowingsuchdeclaration(s);and (c) NotethedeclarationbyanyMember(s)ofanyotherinterestsdeemedtobe relevant(includinganyinterestsarisingfromgiftsandhospitalityreceived whicharenotatthetimeofthemeetingreflectedontheauthority sregister ofgiftsandhospitality,andnotingalsotheadvicefromthegla s MonitoringOfficersetoutatAgendaItem2)andtonoteanynecessary actiontakenbythemember(s)followingsuchdeclaration(s). 3

4 4 Minutes(Pages5-40) TheCommitteeisrecommendedtoconfirmtheminutesofthemeetingofthe TransportCommitteeheldon9September2015tobesignedbytheChairasa correctrecord. Theappendicestotheminutessetoutonpages11to40areattachedforMembersand officersonlybutareavailablefromthefollowingareaofthegla swebsite: 5 SummaryListofActions(Pages41-44) ReportoftheExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat ContactDaleLangford,dale.langford@london.gov.uk, TheCommitteeisrecommendedtonotethecompletedandoutstandingactions arisingfrompreviousmeetingsofthecommittee. 6 MotorcycleSafety(Pages45-46) ReportoftheExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat Contact:RichardBerry,scrutiny@london.gov.uk, TheCommitteeisrecommendedto: (a) Notethereport,putquestionsonmotorcyclesafetyinLondontotheinvited guestsandnotethediscussion;and (b) DelegateauthoritytotheChair,inconsultationwithpartyGroupLead Members,toagreeanyformaloutputfromthediscussion. 7 TaxiandPrivateHireServices(Pages47-72) ReportoftheExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat Contact:RichardBerry,scrutiny@london.gov.uk, TheCommitteeisrecommendedtonote: (a) AletterfromtheDeputyMayorforTransport,followingupthediscussionat thecommittee'smeetingon8july2015,includinganupdatefromtransport forlondononprogressimplementingtherecommendationsofthe Committee'sreport,FutureProof; (b) ThenoteofameetingofpartyGroupLeadMemberswithrepresentativesof UberLondonLimited;and (c) ThenoteofameetingofpartyGroupLeadMemberswithrepresentativesof AddisonLeeLimited. 4

5 5 8 LondonTravelWatchBusinessPlanandBudgetBid2016/17(Pages73-86) ReportoftheExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat Contact:MarkRoberts,mark.roberts@london.gov.uk, TheCommitteeisrecommendedtoconsiderLondonTravelWatch sproposedbudget andbusinessplanforthenextfinancialyearandrecommendsabudgetforlondon TravelWatchfor2016/17. 9 TransportCommitteeWorkProgramme(Pages87-116) ReportoftheExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat Contact:RichardBerry,scrutiny@london.gov.uk, TheCommitteeisrecommendedto: (a) Agreeitsworkprogrammefor2015/16,includingtherevisedscheduleof prospectivetopicsforforthcomingmeetingssetoutatparagraph4.10ofthe report;and (b) NotethenoteofameetingwithrepresentativesofCentreforLondonaspart ofitsinvestigationintonationalrailservices. Theappendicestothereportsetoutonpages91to116areattachedforMembersandofficers onlybutareavailablefromthefollowingareaofthegla swebsite: 10 DateofNextMeeting ThenextmeetingoftheCommitteeisscheduledforTuesday10November2015at10.00am inthechamber,cityhall. 11 AnyOtherBusinesstheChairConsidersUrgent

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7 Agenda Item 3 Subject:DeclarationsofInterests Reportto: TransportCommittee Reportof:ExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat Thisreportwillbeconsideredinpublic Date:15October Summary 1.1 ThisreportsetsoutdetailsofofficesheldbyAssemblyMembersfornotingasdisclosablepecuniary interestsandrequiresadditionalrelevantdeclarationsrelatingtodisclosablepecuniaryinterests,and giftsandhospitalitytobemade. 2. Recommendations 2.1 ThatthelistofofficesheldbyAssemblyMembers,assetoutinthetablebelow,benoted asdisclosablepecuniaryinterests 1 ; 2.2 ThatthedeclarationbyanyMember(s)ofanydisclosablepecuniaryinterestsinspecific itemslistedontheagendaandthenecessaryactiontakenbythemember(s)regarding withdrawalfollowingsuchdeclaration(s)benoted;and 2.3 ThatthedeclarationbyanyMember(s)ofanyotherinterestsdeemedtoberelevant (includinganyinterestsarisingfromgiftsandhospitalityreceivedwhicharenotatthe timeofthemeetingreflectedontheauthority sregisterofgiftsandhospitality,and notingalsotheadvicefromthegla smonitoringofficersetoutatbelow)andany necessaryactiontakenbythemember(s)followingsuchdeclaration(s)benoted. 3. IssuesforConsideration 3.1 RelevantofficesheldbyAssemblyMembersarelistedinthetableoverleaf: 1 TheMonitoringOfficeradvisesthat: Paragraph10oftheCodeofConductwillonlyprecludeaMemberfrom participatinginanymattertobeconsideredorbeingconsideredat,forexample,ameetingoftheassembly, wherethememberhasadirectdisclosablepecuniaryinterestinthatparticularmatter.theeffectofthisis thatthe mattertobeconsidered,orbeingconsidered mustbeaboutthemember sinterest.so,bywayof example,ifanassemblymemberisalsoacouncilloroflondonboroughx,thatassemblymemberwillbe precludedfromparticipatinginanassemblymeetingwheretheassemblyistoconsideramatteraboutthe Member srole/employmentasacouncilloroflondonboroughx;thememberwillnotbeprecludedfrom participatinginameetingwheretheassemblyistoconsideramatteraboutanactivityordecisionoflondon BoroughX. CityHall,TheQueen swalk,londonse12aa Enquiries: minicom: www.london.gov.uk v7/2015 Page 1

8 Member Interest TonyArbourAM Member,LFEPA;Member,LBRichmond JennetteArnoldOBEAM CommitteeoftheRegions GarethBaconAM ChairmanofLFEPA;ChairmanoftheLondonLocal ResilienceForum;Member,LBBexley KemiBadenochAM MayorJohnBiggsAM MayorofTowerHamlets(LB);Member,LLDCBoard AndrewBoffAM Member,LFEPA;CongressofLocalandRegional Authorities(CouncilofEurope) JamesCleverlyAMMP MemberofParliament TomCopleyAM Member,LFEPA AndrewDismoreAM Member,LFEPA LenDuvallAM RogerEvansAM DeputyMayor;CommitteeoftheRegions;Trustfor London(Trustee) NickyGavronAM DarrenJohnsonAM Member,LFEPA JennyJonesAM Member,HouseofLords StephenKnightAM Member,LFEPA;Member,LBRichmond KitMalthouseAMMP MemberofParliament JoanneMcCartneyAM SteveO ConnellAM Member,LBCroydon;MOPACNon-ExecutiveAdviserfor Neighbourhoods CarolinePidgeonMBEAM MuradQureshiAM CongressofLocalandRegionalAuthorities(Councilof Europe) DrOnkarSahotaAM NavinShahAM ValerieShawcrossCBEAM RichardTraceyAM ChairmanoftheLondonWasteandRecyclingBoard; Mayor'sAmbassadorforRiverTransport FionaTwycrossAM Member,LFEPA [Note:LB-LondonBorough;LFEPA-LondonFireandEmergencyPlanningAuthority; MOPAC Mayor sofficeforpolicingandcrime] 3.2 Paragraph10oftheGLA scodeofconduct,whichreflectstherelevantprovisionsofthelocalism Act2011,providesthat: - whereanassemblymemberhasadisclosablepecuniaryinterestinanymattertobeconsidered orbeingconsideredorat (i) ameetingoftheassemblyandanyofitscommitteesorsub-committees;or (ii) anyformalmeetingheldbythemayorinconnectionwiththeexerciseoftheauthority s functions - theymustdisclosethatinteresttothemeeting(or,ifitisasensitiveinterest,disclosethefact thattheyhaveasensitiveinteresttothemeeting);and - mustnot(i)participate,orparticipateanyfurther,inanydiscussionofthematteratthe meeting;or(ii)participateinanyvote,orfurthervote,takenonthematteratthemeeting UNLESS Page 2

9 - theyhaveobtainedadispensationfromthegla smonitoringofficer(inaccordancewith section2oftheprocedureforregistrationanddeclarationsofinterests,giftsandhospitality Appendix5totheCode). 3.3 Failuretocomplywiththeaboverequirements,withoutreasonableexcuse,isacriminaloffence;asis knowinglyorrecklesslyprovidinginformationaboutyourintereststhatisfalseormisleading. 3.4 Inaddition,theMonitoringOfficerhasadvisedAssemblyMemberstocontinuetoapplythetestthat waspreviouslyappliedtohelpdeterminewhetherapecuniary/prejudicialinterestwasarising- namely,thatmembersrelyonareasonableestimationofwhetheramemberofthepublic,with knowledgeoftherelevantfacts,could,withjustification,regardthematterassosignificantthatit wouldbelikelytoprejudicethemember sjudgementofthepublicinterest. 3.5 Membersshouldthenexercisetheirjudgementastowhetherornot,inviewoftheirinterestsand theinterestsofothersclosetothem,theyshouldparticipateinanygivendiscussionsand/or decisionsbusinessofwithinandbythegla.itremainstheresponsibilityofindividualmembersto makefurtherdeclarationsabouttheiractualorapparentinterestsatformalmeetingsnotingalso thatamember sfailuretodiscloserelevantinterest(s)hasbecomeapotentialcriminaloffence. 3.6 Membersarealsorequired,whereconsideringamatterwhichrelatestoorislikelytoaffectaperson fromwhomtheyhavereceivedagiftorhospitalitywithanestimatedvalueofatleast 25withinthe previousthreeyearsorfromthedateofelectiontothelondonassembly,whicheveristhelater,to disclosetheexistenceandnatureofthatinterestatanymeetingoftheauthoritywhichtheyattend atwhichthatbusinessisconsidered. 3.7 Theobligationtodeclareanygiftorhospitalityatameetingisdischarged,subjecttotheprovisoset outbelow,byregisteringgiftsandhospitalityreceivedontheauthority son-linedatabase.theonlinedatabasemaybeviewedhere: IfanygiftorhospitalityreceivedbyaMemberisnotsetoutontheon-linedatabaseatthetimeof themeeting,andunderconsiderationisamatterwhichrelatestoorislikelytoaffectapersonfrom whomamemberhasreceivedagiftorhospitalitywithanestimatedvalueofatleast 25,Members areaskedtodisclosetheseatthemeeting,eitheratthedeclarationsofinterestagendaitemorwhen theinterestbecomesapparent. 3.9 ItisforMemberstodecide,inlightoftheparticularcircumstances,whethertheirreceiptofagiftor hospitality,could,onareasonableestimationofamemberofthepublicwithknowledgeofthe relevantfacts,withjustification,beregardedassosignificantthatitwouldbelikelytoprejudicethe Member sjudgementofthepublicinterest.wherereceiptofagiftorhospitalitycouldbeso regarded,themembermustexercisetheirjudgementastowhetherornot,theyshouldparticipatein anygivendiscussionsand/ordecisionsbusinessofwithinandbythegla. 4. LegalImplications 4.1 Thelegalimplicationsareassetoutinthebodyofthisreport. 5. FinancialImplications 5.1 Therearenofinancialimplicationsarisingdirectlyfromthisreport. Page 3

10 LocalGovernment(AccesstoInformation)Act1985 ListofBackgroundPapers:None ContactOfficer: DaleLangford,PrincipalCommitteeManager Telephone: Page 4

11 MINUTES Meeting: TransportCommittee Date: Wednesday9September2015 Time: 10.00am Place: Chamber,CityHall,TheQueen's Walk,London,SE12AA Copiesoftheminutesmaybefoundat: Present: ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair) CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair) VictoriaBorwickAMMP TomCopleyAM RogerEvansAM MuradQureshiAM NavinShahAM RichardTraceyAM 1 ApologiesforAbsenceandChair'sAnnouncements(Item1) 1.1 TheChairbroughttotheCommittee sattentiontheoccasionofhermajestythequeen becomingthelongestservingmonarch,aneventtobemarkedontheriverdirectlyoutside CityHallfollowingthemeeting.TheCommitteecongratulatedHerMajestyonherlifetime serviceandthechairaddedherowntributetothenation sgreatestpublicservant. 1.2 ApologiesforabsencewerereceivedfromSteveO ConnellAM,forwhomRogerEvansAM attendedasasubstitutemember,dronkarsahotaam,forwhomnavinshahamattended asasubstitutemember,andfromdarrenjohnsonam. CityHall,TheQueen swalk,londonse12aa Enquiries: minicom: www.london.gov.uk Page 5 Agenda Item 4

12 GreaterLondonAuthority TransportCommittee Wednesday9September DeclarationsofInterests(Item2) 2.1 Resolved: ThatthelistofofficesheldbyAssemblyMembers,assetoutinthetableat AgendaItem2,benotedasdisclosablepecuniaryinterests. 3 Minutes(Item3) 3.1 Resolved: ThattheminutesofthemeetingoftheTransportCommitteeheldon8July2015 besignedbythechairasacorrectrecord. 4 SummaryListofActions(Item4) 4.1 TheCommitteereceivedthereportoftheExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat. 4.2 Resolved: Thatthecompletedandoutstandingactionsarisingfrompreviousmeetingsofthe Committeebenoted. 5 ActionTakenUnderDelegatedAuthority(Item5) 5.1 TheCommitteereceivedthereportoftheExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat. 5.2 Resolved: ThattheactiontakenbytheChairunderdelegatedauthoritybenoted,namelyto agree: 5.3 (a) (b) Thescopeandtermsofreferenceforaninvestigationintocommercialtraffic inlondon;and AresponsetotheTransportforLondonconsultationoncardpaymentsin taxis. InaccordancewithStandingOrder2.2D,theChairtooktheremainingitemsinadifferent orderthanthatsetoutontheagenda. Page 6

13 GreaterLondonAuthority TransportCommittee Wednesday9September NationalRailServicesinLondon(Item7) 6.1 TheCommitteereceivedthereportoftheExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat. 6.2 TheCommitteeagreed,toensurethatitsreportonNationalRailservicescouldbesentoutto stakeholdersattheearliestopportunity,thatauthorityshouldbedelegatedtothechair,in consultationwiththepartygroupleadmemberstoagreethereport. 6.3 Resolved: (a) (b) (c) ThatthenotesofasitevisittothenewLondonOvergroundservicebetween LiverpoolStreetandEnfieldTown,ameetingwithrepresentativesofrail passengersinsevenoaks,kent,andameetingonraildevolutionwitha rangeofexpertsandstakeholdersbenoted; ThataresponsefromtheMayortoletterssenttotheMayorandTransport forlondononnationalrailservicesinlondonbenoted;and ThatauthoritybedelegatedtotheChair,inconsultationwiththeparty GroupLeadMemberstoagreetheCommittee sreportonnationalrail servicesinlondon. 7 TransportCommitteeWorkProgramme(Item8) 7.1 TheCommitteereceivedthereportoftheExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat. 7.2 TheChairreportedthatdiscussiononnighttimeTubeservicesscheduledforthe 10November2015wouldneedtobepostponed,asthe24-hourTubeservicewasnot expectedtobeinoperationbythen. 7.3 Itwasagreedtousethe10November2015meetingfortwosessionswithTransportfor London(TfL):tofollowupthediscussionwithSirHowardDavies,ChairoftheAirports Commission,attheAssemblyPlenarymeetingthepreviousday,whereSirHowardDavieshad beencriticaloftfl sassessmentontheimpactonsurfacetransportofexpansionof HeathrowAirport;tofollowupTfL sconsultationonreformofprivatehireregulationsand progresswithtaxiandprivatehireissuessincethepublicationofthecommittee sreporton theissue,futureproof,in Resolved: (a) Thattheworkprogrammefor2015/16,includingtherevisedscheduleof prospectivetopicsforforthcomingmeetingssetoutatparagraph4.11ofthe reportbeagreed; Page 7

14 (b) (c) GreaterLondonAuthority TransportCommittee Wednesday9September2015 ThattheCommittee smeetingon15october2015beusedforadiscussion ofmotorcyclesafetywithinvitedguests;and ThattheCommittee smeetingon10november2015beusedforquestion andanswersessionswithtransportforlondononsurfaceaccessto HeathrowAirportandtaxiandprivatehireservices. 8 DateofNextMeeting(Item9) 8.1 ThenextmeetingoftheCommitteeisscheduledforThursday15October2015at10.00am, inthechamber,cityhall. 9 LightCommercialTraffic(Item6) 9.1 TheCommitteereceivedthereportoftheExecutiveDirectorofSecretariatasbackgroundto puttingquestionsonlightcommercialtraffictothefollowingpanelsofinvitedguests: Panel1(CurrentandfuturetrendsinvantrafficandTfL splansformitigation) IanWainwright,HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TfL; JoGodsmark,ChartedInstituteofLogisticsandTransport;and ChristopherSnelling,HeadofUrbanLogistics,FreightTransportAssociation. Panel2(Developingmoreefficientandsustainabledeliverymethods) IanWainwright,HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TfL; KevinGreenaway,NationalPlanningManager Logistics,Sainsbury's; NicholasDunn,HeadofTransportUK,Tescoplc; CharlieShiels,ExecutiveDirector,DPDGroupUKLtd; RichardCrook,FleetDirector,DHLExpressUK;and LaliVirdee,InstituteofSustainability. 9.2 AtranscriptofthediscussionisattachedatAppendix Duringthecourseofthediscussion,theChairaskedDHLtoprovidetheCommitteewith furtherdetailsoftheregulatoryissuesarisingfromthe3.5tonnelimitonvehiclesclassedas lightgoodvehicles. 9.4 Resolved: Thatthereportanddiscussionbenoted. Page 8

15 GreaterLondonAuthority TransportCommittee Wednesday9September AnyOtherBusinesstheChairConsidersUrgent(Item10) 10.1 Therewasnootherbusiness. 11 CloseofMeeting 11.1 Themeetingendedat11.58am. Chair Date ContactOfficer: DaleLangford,PrincipalCommitteeManager;Telephone: ; Page 9

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17 Appendix 1 TransportCommittee 9September2015 TranscriptofAgendaItem6 LightCommercialTraffic ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):CanIwelcomeIanWainwright,theHeadofFreightandFleet ProgrammesatTransportforLondon(TfL),andChristopherSnelling,whoistheHeadofUrbanLogisticsand RegionalPolicyattheFreightTransportAssociation(FTA)?WehavehadveryusefulevidencefromtheFTAin thepastandyourpresenceismuchappreciated.welcometojogodsmark.itisjo sfirstattendanceatthis Committee.Thankyouverymuch.SheisChairmanoftheCharteredInstituteofLogisticsandTransport s OutsourcingandProcurementForum.Threeexcellentexpertshaveagreedtosharetheirthoughtswithus today. ThefirstthingisthatIthinkweareallagreedthattherehasbeenanincreaseinvantrafficinLondonand, comparedtoheavygoodsvehicles(hgvs),vantraffichasgrown,recently,disproportionatelyagain.itwould behelpfulfortherecordifeachofyoucouldperhapsjustsaysomethingaboutthat.whydoyouthinkthat thisishappeningandwhatarethemainreasons? ChristopherSnelling(HeadofUrbanLogistics,FreightTransportAssociation):Yes.FromanFTA pointofview,ithasbeenmuchdiscussedovertheyearsbutitisinlargepartdrivenbybusinessneedandan increasingneedformoretime-sensitivedeliveriesbothtoultimatecustomersandalsotobusinessesaswell, dealingmoreinthemovementofsmallgoods.thathasseenamovetowardsmakinguseofvans. Itisalsoworthrememberingthathalfofvansareusedprimarilybytradespeopleratherthanfordeliveries. Therefore,asyouseeeconomicgrowthandyouseeanincreaseinservicingandyousee,particularlyina wealthycitylikelondon,anincreaseinrequirementsfrompeopleforservicingandforservicesattheir propertyorattheirbusiness,youseegoingwiththatasubstantialincreaseinvantraffic. Therearethelong-termtrendslikethereductioninstockspaceinstoresbutalsoinofficesandtryingtomake useofeverysquarefootofretail.thatis,again,atrendwewouldseeparticularlyprevalentinlondon becauseofthecostofrealestate.certainly,peoplearewantingtomakeuseofeveryinchthattheycanand thereforerequiremorefrequentandtailoreddeliveries. ThereisperhapsanelementaswellwiththeHGVsector.Itisquitewellregulated.Itispossiblethereissome movementofsubstitutionandpeoplemakinguseofvans.itishardtoquantifyexactlyhowbigthatis.wedo notthinkitwouldbethemajorcause,butitispossiblethatitisanelement. Thefinaloneissomepeoplewantingtomovetowardsmoreenvironmentallyfriendlymeansoftransport.The commercialoptionsavailableforvansaremuchbetterthantheyareinthehgvmarket.thosewantingtogo downtoazero-emissionoperationareprobablylookingmoreatmakinguseofvansthantheyareathgvs. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Therearegoodandbadreasonswhythismightbehappening? ChristopherSnelling(HeadofUrbanLogistics,FreightTransportAssociation):Itisimportantto rememberwhenwetalkaboutthegrowthinvansthattheyarealldoingsomethingproductive.iwouldsee that,inaway,youstartfromthepositionthatthegrowthinvansisgoodasawholebecauseitisagrowthin theeconomy.itisagrowthinsocialservicesthattheyareproviding.itthenconsequentiallycomeswith socialissuesintermsofemissions,safetyandcongestionthatwehavetomanage,butiwouldurgeagainstan Page 11

18 assumptionthatgrowthisbad.itisareflectionofeconomicprosperity,whichisinitselfagoodthing.we justthenhavetomanagetheconsequencesastheycome. JoGodsmark(CharteredInstituteofLogisticsandTransport):IamconsciousthatChristopherhas madealotofgoodpointsandidonotwanttorepeatthem.obviously,thegrowthofe-commerceisabig driverinthisareaandanincreaseinhomedeliveries. IntheOutsourcingandProcurementForum,oneofthethingswedoregularlyissurveymembersabouttheir outsourcingbehaviours.certainlywehaveseenoverthelastfiveyearsofoursurveyincreasingoutsourcingof transportinparticularandshortercontractsinsomeareas.withthatsometimescomesalackofvisibilityof someofthesubcontractingfromthatandmaybesomeofthejourneysthatwerepreviouslyown-fleetand largedeliverysizes,combinedwithalotofthepointschristopherhasmade,whentheycomeintoanurban environment,comeintothevanmarket. Peopleinoursurveyalsorespondtothefactthattheyarenowincreasinglycollaboratingwitheachotherand movingtoshareduserservice.shareduserserviceisoneofthefactorsthatcausepeopletooutsourceinthat waytogetthosesynergiesandtorespondtotheenvironmentalpressures.generally,thereisanincreasein shareduser.towhatextentthatmeansvansiscoupledwiththesmallerdropsizesandthejust-in-time deliveriesprobablymore,butasitisoutsourcedwegetlessvisibilityofactuallyhowthatdeliveryisbeing carriedoutinsomecases. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Thatwasveryhelpful. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Youareright.There isagrowthinvans.thatisveryclear.thelasttransportstrategyidentifiedapredictedgrowthandiwould suggest,basedonwhatweareseeingcurrently,thatgrowthisprobablybeyondthatpredictedgrowth. Acoupleofreasonshavealreadybeenmentioned.Whatwearetryingtounderstandistheactualcommodities thatarebeingmovedbecausetheissuesometimesis,aschristopher[snelling]said,dependentonoperator licensing,dependentondriveravailabilityanddependentonthespeedandamountofgoodsbeingmoved. Often,thevehicleisirrelevant.YoucanmoveasingleparcelinanHGVasyoucaninavanoryoucouldona bike.theissueiswhatismoving,whereitismovingandwhyitismoving.thatisunderlyingissuethatweare tryingtogettothebottomof. Theothersideofitis,becauseitisacommercialcontract,thedataonthisismind-numbinglyimpossibleto find.ifwegetdowntotryingtofindwhatthedatais,youwouldsaythataboutathirdappeartobemoving goods,aboutathirdappeartobedoingservicingactivityofsomesort-anengineerfixingsomethingora plumber-andmaybeathirdareincommutingmode.thatsoundsveryworrying,butthenyousaythatthatis thetrippurposeandthetrippurpose,forexample,foravirginorabtengineer,maybeactuallytakingtheir van,whichtheyarelegitimatelyallowedtoparkathome,anddrivingtothepointoftheirfirstjobandsoitis regardedasacommuteratherthananythingelse.thedataissopoorthatwearetryingtogetbeneaththat data. Wehavedonesomeinitialsurveysjustofthecentralareatolookatthesideofavanandsay,basedonwhatit says,whatislikelytobeinit?wethinkthat40%ofthemareunbrandedandsotheycouldbeanything. Thereisnofridgeontopofthem;thereisnosetofladders;thereisnothingthatimpliesthatitisdoingone thingoranother.thatisjustwithinthecongestionchargezone.ithastakenusalittlewhiletogetthrough tohowweactuallydoit,butnextweekwearedoingthefirstsetofsurveyswiththepoliceandactuallypulling somevansovertoseewhatisinthemandwhattheyaredoingandthattypeofstuff.wearelookingtotryto Page 12

19 improvethedataset.thatisonlyaone-off.whatwearegoingtotrytodofromthatisdeterminethemost sensiblewayofgatheringthisdatabecausethatbecomesveryexpensivetofind. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Itwouldbeareallyusefulsampling,yes. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Yes.Wearetrying togettoincreasethatlevelofdata.wearealsolookingatwhetherthereisawayofpotentially multi-sourcingthatdatawithoutgettingintocommercialconfidentiality,butitbecomesverydifficultto understandthepurposeofaprivatetrip.thatistheproblem. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Yes.ItakeChristopher s[snelling]pointthateconomicgrowthisa goodthing,buttowhatextentdoyouthinkthegrowthofvantrafficiscontributingtocongestion?how muchofaproblemisitnow? IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Therearetworising modesoftransport:cycling,whichisgood,andvans,whicharedebatable.someofthemmightbegood becausetheyaredoingthingsliketheyareincreasingcustomerchoice,increasingresponsetimesandallthose thingsthatweasindividualconsumerswant.thosethings,wewouldsayasindividuals,arepositive. However,becauseitisacommercialcontract,itisbeingdoneinawaythatisefficientforthebuyerandthe sellerofthegoodsandservices,notinawaythatisefficientforthewaythaturbanareaswork.thatisthe sortofconundrumthatwehave:howdowefixthattostartputtingefficiencyforthecitybackintothat commercialcontract?thatthenhasawholeseriesofissuesabouthowtheindustrypricesdeliveryand servicingactivity.howmanytimeshaveweboughtsomethinganditsaysithasfreedelivery? CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):Alot. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Cananybodyshow mehowyoucandeliversomethingforfree?thatistheissuethatwehavewithsomeofthis. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Thatwasveryinteresting. VictoriaBorwickAMMP:Goodpoint. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Giventhatwearestillboxingalittlebitinthedarkaboutthepurposes ofmanyofthesetrips,apointwasmadethereabouthowtherearealternatives.towhatextentdoyouthink sometimesinlondonvansareusedratherthan,say,motorcyclesorscootersbecauseofsafetyconcerns?do youthinkthatisafactoratall? IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Iwouldsayitisless aboutsafetyandmoreabout, Ithenhavemysparepartsinthebackofthevan,ifIamaplumberoran engineeroraserviceengineer. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Convenienceandsecurity. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):EvenifIdonotneed allofthewidgetsthatiamcarrying,iftheyarethere,idonothavetocomebackforasecondtrip. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Theyalwaysseemto,anyway,don tthey? Page 13

20 IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Ifsomebodycomes torepairsomething,itislike, Idon thavethatpart,andyouthenhavetotakeanotherdayoffwork.ifthey haveavanandtheyhaveeverything,perfect. ChristopherSnelling(HeadofUrbanLogistics,FreightTransportAssociation):Therearesome deliveriesandsomemovementsoffreightthataresuitedtothescooter,motorcycleorbicyclemovement,but theyareaverysmallproportionofwhatwearetalkingabout.whereyouhaveheavyorevenslightlybulky goods,vansarequitecapableofcarryingreasonablylargeloads.also,theycanbeveryefficient.ifyouhave avanloadofgoodsthatneedaseriesofdeliveriesaroundcentrallondon,theywillbethemostappropriate waytogetitaroundinawaythatwouldnotbeoperationallypossibleifyouweretryingtodoitbymoped. Theyhavearoletoplayandareoneofthesolutionsgiventhattheycanbemoreenvironmentallyfriendlyand theycanbemorecongestionfriendly.membersareexperimentingwithdoingmorestuffwiththosekindsof modes,butitisanicheratherthananalternativetothevan,iwouldsay. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):OK.Ijustwanttoaskyouaquestionthatrelatestoanearlierscrutiny wehavebeendoingontaxisandprivatehire.ireallydonotknowwhattheanswertothisoneis.weknow thattherehasbeenabiggrowthinminicabsinlondon.theyaregrowingbyabout1,000amonthatthe moment.wehavehadcomplaintsaboutminicabsblockingparkingandresidents parking,etc.hasthe growthinprivatehirevehiclesaffectedthefreightindustry,doyouthink,inlondoninanyway? ChristopherSnelling(HeadofUrbanLogistics,FreightTransportAssociation):Wemaybealittle freight-centric,butiwouldsaythatfromourmembers pointofviewtheyarealljustcarstous.whetheritis aprivatemotoristoraminicaborablackcab,thereisahugequantumoftrafficontheroads,theroadsare too busy -ininvertedcommas-andsoitisdifficulttogetaround. Itleadsintoaninterestingareaaboutthebestuseoftheroadsandwhatwearekeenforpeopletoconsideris notjustcountingthenumbersofvehicleontheroadsbutactuallytryingtolookatwhatthosevehiclesare achievingforlondon. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Rationingbasedonarational-- ChristopherSnelling(HeadofUrbanLogistics,FreightTransportAssociation):Yes.Inthesameway thatyoushouldnotequateabuswithacarbecauseabuswillbedelivering30peopletotheirdestinationsand aprivatecarwillbedeliveringonepersonandaprivatehirecar,minicaborwhatever,similarly,probably deliveringoneperson.isthatthemostefficientuseoftheroads?fromourpointofview,comparedtoafully ladenvanorafullyladenhgv,itisprobablynotthemostefficientuseoftheroads.therearetough questionstobeaskedthereintermsofcongestion. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Thisroad-userhierarchyisfine,exceptthattherewillbesomevans doingsomethingincrediblynecessaryandsociallyusefulandothersdoingsomethinglessnecessaryand sociallyuseful.thatisoneofthethingsthatwewouldliketotrytounpickalittlebitduringthismeeting. RogerEvansAM:IhaveaquestionforIanabouttheinformationthatTfLisgathering.Areyouseeingthe increaseinlightcommercialtrafficishavinganimpactonprivatecartraffic?whereasatonetimetodothe familyshoppingyouwoulddrivetothesupermarket,pickuptheshoppinganddriveback,nowwithmore peopleorderingonlinethesupermarketcanputonevanoutontheroadanddelivertoseveraldifferent customers.therefore,potentially,thereisatrade-offthere.isthatsomethingthatyouarelookingat? Page 14

21 IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Itiscertainly somethingthatweareawareofthepotentialfor.someworkwasdoneacoupleofyearsagobytheracor somebody,whichlookedatsubstitution.bearinmindthatthegrowthofinternetshoppingisreallyrapidandi wouldsaytheindustryisnotnecessarilyflounderingbuttheindustryiscertainlystrugglingtounderstand wherethetrendsareheadingonsomeofthisstuff.theworkfromtheracimpliedthattheinternetshopping elementwasfreeingupthecartodosomethingelse.inotherwords,becauseyoudidnothavetogoand spendtwohoursgoingtotescoandparkingupinthecarparkandwheelingthekidsaround,whatyoucould doisgetyourinternetshoppingatatimethatsuitedyoubetterandusethecartotakethekidstotheparkor dosomethingelsewiththetrip. WhatweareclearlyseeingintermsofcarusageincentralLondonisthattherearefeweryoungerdrivers gettingacarlicenceandthattypeofstuffandsothereiscertainlyadegreeofsubstitution. Theissueishowmanydifferentdeliveryoptionsthereare.Whereasperhapstraditionallywewouldhave boughtallofourfoodthroughasupermarket-orinthelast20years-nowwearebuyingalotoffood throughlotsofconveniencesupermarketsonanalmostdailybasisandtoppingthatupwithyetanother deliveryofatakeaway.youcanevengethigh-endrestaurantmealsdeliveredtoyouwithinacoupleofhours now.withallofthedifferentdeliveryoptions,itisaquestionofhowmanyoptionsyouendupwithrather thanperhapsthatonetripinacartoabigsupermarket. RogerEvansAM:InoticedyoureferredtocentralLondoninthatanswerandinfactalotoftheexamples yougavearecentrallondonlifestyleoptions.doyouseethesameeffectinouterlondon?iwouldhave thought,without-of-townshopping,thereisprobablymoreofapossibilitytoreducetrafficinouterlondon thanthereisinthecentreoftown. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Yes,certainly.As yousay,thatcentrallondonlifestyleiswhatyoufindcertainlyaroundanumberofthetubestationsanda numberoftheundergroundstations.ifyougoouttotheouterzoneplaceslikebalhamorwoodgreenor yougotothelikesofrichmondoruxbridge,whathappensisthereareanumberofconveniencestoreson yourroutebackfromthetubestationorfromthetrainstation. People sshoppinghabitsarechanging.therefore,yes,somepeoplewillorderandpickupbitsandpiecesand theywilldotheirbulkorderonlineonceaweek,twiceaweekorwhatever.thatistheotherside.whereas perhapsyouusedtotakeyourcaronceafortnighttothesupermarket,nowitisthereattheclickofamouse andyoucandoitthreeorfourtimesaweekifyouwantto. MuradQureshiAM:Roger[EvansAM]insomewayshasansweredthefirstpointIwasgoingtomake.It soundstomeverymuchlikeacentrallondonphenomenonandcertainly,fromwhatisawonbakerstreetthis morningandthenumbersofwhitevanscomingintolondon,thatseemstoconfirmthepicture. CanIaskyouforanotherobservation?Towhatextentistheincreaseinfreightmovementofparcelsand what-have-youareflectionoftheprivatisationofroyalmailandcompetitioninthatsector?isthata reflectionoftheincreaseinvehiclesofthistypeonthestreets? ChristopherSnelling(HeadofUrbanLogistics,FreightTransportAssociation):Youcouldsaythat someoftheliberalisationofthoseserviceshasopenedupnewmarketstocustomers,whothenwanttotake advantageofitandwanttobookindeliveriesinadifferentway.theywanttobooktheminatspecifictimes. Theyexpectsame-dayornext-daydelivery.Asthathasbecomeavailable,companieshavesteppedforward, companieshavepromotedthatdesire,peoplehavepickeduponitandsoitexists.iwouldnotsayitwasa Page 15

22 sortofinstitutionalfunctionofprivatisationbecauseyoucandeliverpackagesonaprivatebasisandsothat growthhasbeencomingforquiteafewyears. Itisobviouslyamassiveimprovementintheservicenotjustforindividualswholiketohavegoodsdeliveredat atimeconvenientforthembutwearealsotalkingaboutbusinesses,whicharenowablemuchmoreto guarantee, Yes,IcanorderthosepartsattherighttimeandIknowthatmyworkshopwillkeepworking becausethatpartwillarriveontimeasareplacement.ithelpskeepsbusinessesfunctioning.therefore,itis ahugelyimportantthingacrosssociety.itislinkedtothatliberalisationtoadegree,butitsrootisinadesire frombusinessesandpeopletohavethatservice. MuradQureshiAM:Iamnotaskingforajustification,buthastherebeenanincreaseinmovementsonthe roadsasaresult?wouldyousaythat? ChristopherSnelling(HeadofUrbanLogistics,FreightTransportAssociation):Therehasbeena continuingtrendoverthelastfiveortenyearsandsoidonotknowthatyouwouldlinkittooneparticular event. MuradQureshiAM:Itisjustthatthatmarketisalsoliquid.Youseethosecompaniesthatdeliverthe parcelscominginandoutofthemarketaswell.itishighlycompetitive. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Yes.Withvansand cyclesorevencourier-typeactivity,thereareveryfewbarrierstoentry.youcangoandbuyavantomorrow andyoucansetyourselfupasacouriercompanyandsothereisthatsideofit. Theothersideisthat,ifyoutaketheRoyalMail,itsparcelbitwasreallyinrapiddeclinebuttheinternethas savedit,toanextent.withsomeofthat,itisnowgettinghugegrowth,particularlyintermsofpeoplehaving togototheirlocalsortingofficetocollecttheparcelthatwasafaileddeliveryduringthatday.itissomeof thatstuffaswell. MuradQureshiAM:Justcomingtothatpoint,itisinteresting.Noteveryoneispickingupdeliveriesat home.actually,alotofpeoplearesendingthemtotheirworkplaces,aretheynot?isthatwhatwehave seen? IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Yes. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Wehaveasectiononthat.Britainreallyhastakentointernet shoppingbigtime. MuradQureshiAM:Iwasmoreconcernedaboutthemovementtoworkratherthanhome. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Infact,Iexperimentedbyorderingsomethingandhavingitdelivered here. MuradQureshiAM:Idoitallthetime.Itisbetter.Thereisalwayssomeonehere. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Actually,theyhaveasystem. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):Theydo. Page 16

23 VictoriaBorwickAMMP:Somecompaniesarenowrejectingdeliveriesatwork. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Yes,CanaryWharf.ThatisinCaroline ssection.thatisavery interestingareabecausethatisnewgrowth. RichardTraceyAM:Couldwejusthaveabitofdiscussionabout,firstofall,theexamplesthatwerelearned duringtheolympics?wehadanumberofsessionswithnotonlytflbutthefta,theroadhaulage Association(RHA)andvariousbodiesbeforetheOlympics.Wewereveryimpressedwiththewhole managementoftrafficandtransportduringtheolympics. HowmuchinfactisTfLtakingforwardthelessonsthatwerelearnedandthevariousmodelsthatwereputin placeforthe2012olympics? IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Duringthe2012 Olympics,wehadasix-weekwindowwhenweneededtogetachangeinthewaythatthedeliveryand servicingactivityoccurred.thatwasachievedthroughalotofgoodworkbythefreightindustryintermsof understandingthesizeandscaleoftheissueandalsoalotofcommunicationtobusinesses.asisaidearlier,it isacustomer-client-supplierrelationshipand,inasense,theoperatorwilldowhatthecustomerwantsitto do.thecriticalthingwastalkingtobusinessesandtalkingtotheoperators. ForsomethingliketheOlympics,whichisaone-offnationalevent,itbecomesveryeasyforeverybodytosay, OK,weneedtodosomethingdifferent,butwehavekepttheprogrammegoingsincethen.Wedoalotof workengagingwiththeindustrytomakesurethatwehavedonethat.really,themessagesthatwehad duringthegames-whichweretoreducethenumberoftrips,retimethem,reroutethemandrevisethemode -arestillthesamefourthingsthatwearetryingtodo. However,werecognisethatrevisingthemodeandreducingthenumberoftripsisreallyaboutreducingthe numberoftripsontheroadnetwork,particularlyduringpeakperiods,becausethewaythatfreightmovesisit tendstobeveryfocusedonthedaytimeandittendstobeveryfocusedontheearlymorning7.00amto 11.00amslot.Wehavedonealotofworkintermsofretiming,whichIthinkisalsooneofthequestionsfor later,andalsosomestuffaboutwhatsortofinformationtheindustryneedstoconsidersomeoftheseoptions andhowwetakethebestpracticethatoccurscurrentlyandhowwestimulatethatbestpractice.itisthings liketheworkwearedoingwiththeout-of-hoursconsortium,workthatwearedoingintalkingtoothercities aboutthewaytheyworkonthingsandtheideastheyhave,andvarioustrials.ifyoutakenearlyallofthe coffeeshops-starbucks,nero,pretamanger-theygetdeliveriesovernightorintheeveningbeforehand. Howcanwetakethosemodelsandsellthemtootherpeopleorencourageotherpeopletopickthemup? RichardTraceyAM:Howfarisyoursideofit,Christopher?Aretheyacceptingparticularlytheout-of-hours deliveriesandthatsortofthing?isthatagrowtharea? ChristopherSnelling(HeadofUrbanLogistics,FreightTransportAssociation):Itisaverypromising areatoexplore.membersareverykeenonit.weareactiveparticipantsintheconsortiumthatian [Wainwright]referredto. Therearealotofbarrierstoit.Someofthosearewithintheindustry.Whenyouhaveestablishedpractice,it isalwaysdifficulttogetchange.someofthebarriersarewithinlocalauthoritiesandtheiracceptanceeither onanenvironmentalhealthleveloronaplanningpolicylevelofnight-timedeliveries.therearealsoissues aboutnight-timemovementsandthelondonlorrycontrolschemeandconcernsaroundthatarea. Page 17

24 However,thereisagreatinterestinitbecause,aswellasallthesocialillsthattrafficduringthedaycauses andcongestion,emissionsandsafety,itisalsohugelycostlytobusinesses.iftheycangetnight-time deliveriesworking,theycanoperatemuchmoresmoothly.itcanbemuchmoretime-efficientandmuchmore fuel-efficient.itisbetteruseofresourcesallaround.itcannotbedoneforeverythingbecause,ultimately,if youareonepersonoperatingasmallcoffeeshopandyoudonotwanttoopenupyourplaceofworkuntil 7.00amandyoudonotwantyourdeliveriesbefore7.00am,thereisnothingthefreightoperatorcando individuallytoforceyoutochangethathabit.however,certainlywithlargercompaniesandsomesectors, thereishugeopportunitytobemakingmoredeliveriesatnightanditwouldbeamuchmoreefficientuseof theroadsifwecould. RichardTraceyAM:Jo,doyouhaveanyobservationsonthis? JoGodsmark(CharteredInstituteofLogisticsandTransport):Yes.Clearly,wehavealimitedresource and,byusingthenight-time,wearefillinginthegaps.ithinkweallsupportthat. Thereisachallengewhenyouarepartofasharedusernetworkandyouaregoingintoanareatodoa multiple-dropdeliveryandthensomeofthosecustomerswouldacceptnightdeliveriesandsomewouldnot. Therefore,thereisariskthatyouwouldgoinatnightandthencomebackintheday.Someofthesuccess storieshavebeenwherepeoplehavebeenmanagingtheirowntransportandtheyhavethatentiresupply chainundertheircontrol.itistheirstaffwhoaredoingthereceivingaswellasthedeliveryand,therefore, theycanjointhatup.ifyouareworkingfortheshipperbutnottheendcustomer,tryingtodothat negotiationonthecustomeropeningupatnightisarealchallenge.thatbalanceofusingthatscarce resourcemaybeisnotalwaysinthecalculationforwhatthistripisactuallycosting. Anotherthingthatsometimessurprisesme-andwehaveallseenasinternetusersandcustomersthefree delivery;arewereallybearingthatcost-isthatalsoalotofshipperswhentheyaresellingtotheircustomers donotalwayshavewhatiwouldcallcost-ratedpricecardorarobustminimumorderquantityandalsoreally policingwhattheychargetheircustomersfordifferentdropsizes.ifyoudonothavethat,thecustomerwho isspace-constrainedwillverynaturallyorderwhatsuitsthem,whetherthatisthebestthingnotonlyforyouas acompanybutalsoforthewiderenvironmentandcommunity. RichardTraceyAM:ImustsaythatIliveinWandsworthandwehaveagoodnumberofstreetsthathave parkingonbothsides.itbugsmewhenastreetiscompletelyblockedforperhapstenminutesbyeithera largevanorindeedabuildingsupplier.theyseemtobeparticularlybadatthis.theyarriveinthemidstof thedayandthen,asisay,blocktheroadwhiletheyareoffloading.thesesortsofpeopleoughttobeableto operateinthehoursthatarenotsocongested,surely,wouldyounotthink? JoGodsmark(CharteredInstituteofLogisticsandTransport):Iwouldsayaslongassomeoneisthere toreceivethegoodsanditalsodependsonwhatelsetheyaredoing.forinstance,someofthecourier companieshavebecometechnicalcouriers.theyarenotonlydeliveringthegoods;theyarealsodoing technicalswapsaswell.again,itmightmovethattomoreofadaytimeactivity.iagreethatitshouldbeand thatthatiswhatweallneed,butthosearethebarriers. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Whatweare beginningtofindisthatwhilstwithalotofthisstuffwewouldlikethesimpleanswerthatisagenericanswer, itbecomesvery,veryspecifictoalocalareaoralocalstreet. IntheworkthatwehavedonewiththeOut-of-HoursConsortium-whichiswithCamden,Kensingtonand Chelsea,Richmond,theFTA,theRHA,LondonCouncils,theNoiseAbatementSociety,Sainsbury sandtesco- Page 18

25 itisalotofpeoplebuttheissuetherewastogetallofthosepeopleintheroomtogethertosay, Whatisthe artofthepossiblewithretiming? Sainsbury sandtescoidentified25storesacrossthreeboroughs.giventhelevelofdetail,wehavebeenable toretimethreeofthose25storesthroughawholeseriesofjustunpickingthelevelsofregulation,thingslike therouteintothestorethroughthelondonlorrycontrolscheme,anyplanningconditions,anynoise abatementnotices,potentially-dependentontheborough-whethertheygetinvolvedwiththeviewofthe residentsorwhethertheydonot,andawholeseriesofdifferentbitsandpieces.ononeofthesites,there wasaplanningconditionfrom1957thatappliestoaschoolthatisnolongerthere.howdoesanybodyfind outaboutthis?inasense,itisjust, Wecannotbecausethereisaplanningcondition,andyouhavetoget thatindividualconversationflowingtofindtheindividualsolution.asyousaid,ifyoutakesomethinglikea deliverytoasmalllocalneighbourhoodstore,istheresomewherethattheycandeliverattherighttimeofday intherightsizevehicle?hasanybodyreallythoughtaboutthatorisitjustaquestionof, Iampartofa networkandsomebodyissupplyingmeandtheyalwaysturnupinanhgvandalwaysblockthebusroute? Therefore,itistryingtogettheawarenessofdeliveryandservicingintoplanningconditions,into-potentially -tenancyagreementsandintoawholeseriesofthings.thereneedstobesomequestionsaskedthatthen say, Youworkwithinthatinafreeandfairway.Ifanewbuildingisbeingbuilt,whatsizevehicleshouldbe allowedthere? RichardTraceyAM:Iwasgoingtomoveontoyourworkwiththeboroughs.Clearly,youhavebeensaying quitealotthereaboutthat. Theotherquestion,really,inregardtotheboroughsisaboutwhattheirprioritiesare.Howareyoubeingable toaligntheirprioritieswithtfl sandlondon sprioritiesasawhole? IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Attheriskof dominating,certainlywithinalltheboroughsthekeyissuesareaboutsafety,particularlysafetyoflargegoods vehicles;theyareaboutairquality;theyareaboutlocalcongestionissues;andtheyareparticularlyaboutthe qualityoftheplaceandtheeconomicbenefitsofhavingnicestreetsandnicetowncentres.iwouldsayalot ofthosearethesameforusandalotoftheworkthattflisdoingonparticularlythestreettypesapproachis abouthowwerecognisethefunctionalityofastreetdependentonthelocalconditions. Whatisalsotruewiththeboroughsisthatwhilstalotofthemaretryingtodosomethingaboutfreight,they oftendonothavetheresourcingtobeabletodoitanditisalsosplitacrossanumberofdepartments. Sometimesitisaboutlanduseplanning.Sometimesitisnoiseenforcement.Itcanbeparkingandtraffic regulations.itcanbethewastecontracts.thoseallhaveafreightelementtothemthatweneedtotrytopull together. Recently,LondonCouncils TransportandEnvironmentCommitteehasagreedtosetupaboroughofficer liaisongroupandwehavethefirstmeetingofthatnextmonth.whatwearegoingtotrytodoisreallytalkto theboroughsaboutsomeoftheworkthatisgoingon,someofthegreatworkthattheboroughsaredoing individually-notjusttheretimingandtheout-of-hoursconsortiumbutalsocamdenisdoingalotofworkon consolidation-andthosesortsofthingsandreallyseehowwesharesomeofthatbestpractice. ChristopherSnelling(HeadofUrbanLogistics,FreightTransportAssociation):Thatisallverysound andveryaccurate,buttheexperiencethatmemberssometimeshaveonthegroundisthatthereissometimes notthejoined-upthinkingwithincouncilsthatwemightlike.atthestrategiclevelthereisanunderstanding, butthenwithintheofficersyouhaveatransportplanningofficerwhoisverygoodonwantingtomakethe Page 19

26 streetsfreerandsaferandallofthat,anenvironmentalhealthofficerwhosepriorityisforresidents sleepnot tobedisturbedandahousingplanningofficerwhosepriorityistogetmorehousingbuilt,evenifthatmeans buildingitquiteclosetowhatiscurrentlyafreightdepotand,oncethehousinggetsbuilt,wesuddenlystart gettinglotsofcomplaints.wehavememberswhohavehadfacilitiescloseddownbecausetheyhavebeenin existencefor50yearsbutnewhousinggetsbuiltnextdoorandsuddenlyitisanoiseproblem.theyarethe oneswhosufferfromthis.theyaremakingencouragingmovesintherightdirection,butwewouldcertainly liketoseemorejoined-upthinking,particularlyattheofficerlevelwithinboroughs. RichardTraceyAM:Ithinkwewouldallwelcomethat. JoGodsmark(CharteredInstituteofLogisticsandTransport):Ireallyrepeatthatpoint.Also, sometimesthejoined-upthinkingwillconflictbetweenwhatishappeningintheboroughandthensomeof theotherlondon-wideinitiativesandtryingtomakesenseofthat.aswetalkedaboutearlier,thereis actuallyapurposeforthetripandaneedforthetrip.ifwearenotcarefulandwepushdownonearea,we mighttakeanhgvmovementandputitintomultiplevanmovementsinadvertentlybecauseofanother initiativethathasbeentakenup.itisthatjoined-upapproach. ThefeedbackisalsothattheinformationthatwasproducedduringtheLondonOlympicswasveryusefuland thelaybyinformationandthereal-timeinformationdidmakeabigdifference,whileacceptingthatthatisa hardacttofollow. RichardTraceyAM:Allright.Wehavetalkedquiteabitaboutout-of-hoursworkandsoon,butonemajor area-andyouhavetouchedonitvaguely-istheexamplesofothercities workintheukand,indeed, abroad,majorcitieslikelondonineuropeandinnorthamerica.canyoutellussomemoreaboutwhatyou havelearnedthereandwhatwecouldapplyinlondon? IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Yes.Overthelast fiveyears,wehavebeeninvolvedinafeweuropeanprojectslookingatdifferentmethodsanddifferentcity approaches. Whatwehavefoundisthatveryoftenwegetanawfullotmorebenefitonjustaone-to-oneconversation withothercities.asaresult,whatwearefindingisthattheworldisslightlycomingtolondon,whichisabit scarybecausewearesaying, Wedonotknoweverything.Wearestilltryingtofindoutwhatwearedoing, andyeteverybodyissaying, Youaredoingmorethanweare.Wehavecertainlystartedsomereallygood relationshipswithanumberoftheeuropeancities:stockholm,gothenburg,copenhagen,paris,brussels, Barcelona,BerlinandMadrid.Wehavenamedcontacts.Wecan people.Wecanfindoutwhattheyare doingandhowtheyareresponding. Whatwehavealsodoneiswehavedonesomestraightforwardexchangestuff.BackinJune,myequivalent fromnewyorkcameovertofindoutwhatwearedoing.ihaveateamof30.shehasateamoffive. NewYorkhasthesamepopulationasLondon.Theyarereallystruggling,buttheyhavealotofworkthey havebeendoingonrouting.wearesharingthisbestpracticewhereverpossible.thereisanumberof initiativesthataretakingplace.thereisaglobalinitiativeatthemomentonretimingdeliveriesandoneofmy teamisinvolvedinmonthlyconferencecallsonthatwithnewyork,sãopaulo,stockholmandafewothers. Inasense,whatwearetryingtodoistomakesurethatwedonotmissanythingthatisoutthere,seehowit isappliedelsewhereandseewhatwecando. TheoneexampleIwouldgiveisNewYork.NewYork,onretimingdeliveries,haspaidindividualretailersto changetheirpremisesasaone-offpaymentsothattheycanreceivedeliveriesout-of-hours.thatisnot Page 20

27 somethingthattflhasthefundingfor,butitisoneofthosethingsthatsays, Whydidtheymanagetodo that?whydidtheyhavetopayforit?surelytheretailerismakingmoneyfromit.wearegettingintothe detailofthatandtheeconomicsofthattoaskifthatisarepeatablemodelthroughaslightlydifferent approachandtounderstandhowthosepracticescouldapplyinlondon. RichardTraceyAM:Itisverygoodtohear.Wehavesomeexamplesinournotes.Barcelonaseemstobe prettyforward-thinking,accordingtothis. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Yes. RichardTraceyAM:Indeed,SanFranciscohasdynamicparkingcharges.Howdoesthatwork? IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):SanFranciscohasa numberofdifferentbitsandpieces.italsohasanappwhereyoucanorderaparceland,ifyoumovethe locationwhereyouare,youcantelltheparceldeliverycompanyandtheywillredeliverittoyousomewhere else.iwouldsuggestthatthatprobablyincreasesvantrafficratherthananythingelse.however,thisisthe pointwheredifferentcitieshavedifferentapproachesthatwork. Dynamicparkingchargeswouldjustbeaquestionofdifferenttimesofdayindifferentlocations.Whatweare findingisthatveryoften,ifyoutakethewaythatfreightaccessesthekerbsideandparticularlyvansaccess thekerbside,thewayweworkintheukisthatwehavedoubleyellowlinesandsinglelinesforparking,butit istheblipsonthekerbthataffecttheloading.inmostplacesyoucanloadandoffloadmostoftheday, whereasinalotoftheplaces,ifyougotoparis,thereareonlydedicatedloadingbaysandyoucannotparkon generalstreets.therefore,theretendstobeawayinalotofothercitieswheretheyreallyrestricttheloading alotmorethanwedo,butthenwehavethatabilitywhichsaysthatthevanisthereandinfiveminutesis gone.itisnotparkedthereforhalfanhourasthedriverwandersofftothefindtheplacethattheyare deliveringto.thereareplusesandminuses. JoGodsmark(CharteredInstituteofLogisticsandTransport):WhatIunderstandfromSanFranciscoas wellisthattheydidsomeresearchthatshowedalotoftrafficwascausedbypeopledrivingaroundand aroundtofindaparkingspotbecausethepricingwasnotrightandsotheparkingwastoofull.itisaboutalso -andthisismore,obviously,fordomesticprivatevehicles-tryingtogetthepricingrightsothatthereare spacesandpeoplewillnotbedrivingaroundandaroundsomuch. RichardTraceyAM:Isee.Iunderstand.Howsuccessfulhavethevariousconsolidationcentresbeenin alleviatingsomeoftheseproblems?arethereplanstoestablishmoreofthem? IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Theissuewith consolidationcentresisthat,inasense,youaretakingsomethingoutofonevehicleandputtingitinto anothervehicle,whichmeansthereisahumaninvolved.allthatdoesisincreasethecost.therehastobe someadvantagesomewhereinthatsupplychainthatmeans,bytakingitoutofonevehicleandputtingitinto anotherone,itgivessomebenefit. WhatwehavefoundisthatatplaceslikeHeathrowithasworkedarealtreat.Itreducesthetrafficthatis goingintothecentralterminal,ithasasecurityaspecttoitanditsavesthehigh-endretailersthatareatthe airporthavingtoholdstock.thereisawin-win-win.thehousesofparliamentconsolidatesforsecurity reasons.regentstreetconsolidatesanumberofstoresbecause,onceagain,itislessstockholdingwithreally highrentals.therecentoneisconstructionconsolidationwhenthesiteisreallyconstrained.bartshospital, Page 21

28 forexample,isbeingbuiltthroughaconstructionconsolidationcentre,notfortheconcreteandsteelbutfor allthefit-outstuff. TheotheronethathasbeenworkingrecentlyisonethatCamdenhasbeeninvolvedinthroughtheMayor sair QualityFundandsomeEuropeanfunding,whichisCamdenandtwootherboroughs.WhenCamdenmovedits offices,itendedupwithoneloadingbayanditknewitwasgoingtostruggletogeteverythingintohead office,butithasconsolidatedandsavedmoneyontheprocurementprocessbygettingthedeliverytoone pointratherthaneachindividualdeliverycompanyhavingtogoto40or50differentdeliverypoints.itis savingmoneyonthat. Therefore,therearedifferentmodelsbutthemodelhastobeaboutwhetheritprovideseitheracostbenefit oraservicebenefitinthatsupplychain. JoGodsmark(CharteredInstituteofLogisticsandTransport):Theyaredifferentmodels.Itisallabout whatyourtargetareaisandwhetheryoucandoacriticalmassofworkinthattargetareatomakeit worthwhile. Ifwegobacktoournight-timedeliverydiscussion,wesaidthat,actually,ifyouhaveamulti-dropandyou taketwoofthoseoutandputthematnight,thenyouhaveavehiclerunningatnightandavehiclerunning duringtheday.itisthesamewithaconsolidationcentre.ifyoucannotgetacriticalmassofworkforthat consolidationcentre,thedangeristhatyouwilltakeoutsomeofthosedrops.theywillgotothe consolidationcentreandthevehiclesarestillgoinginfortherestofthework. IfyoutakesomethinglikeHeathrowretailandHeathrowconstruction,itisamandatedserviceandthe consolidationcentretobeused.therefore,yougetallthedeliveriesflowingviathatconsolidationcentre. Thatisappropriateforthatenvironment,butnotnecessarilyappropriateforalltargetareas. Ifyoutaketheexamplewhereyouaretakingitalongthewholesupplychainandthecontractingbodythat putsintheconsolidationcentre-likethecamdenmodel-isalsoreceivingthegoodsratherthan,again, havingallthoseconversationswithallthedifferentbusinessesinthattargetarea.assoonasyougoouttoa verywidegroupofcompanieswithinanarea,thenyouwouldprobablyhavetogodownthemandatingroute. Itisthatcommercialtrade-offagain.Becausenotallthecongestionandallthecostsarereallyandtrulyinthe calculationforanindividualcompany,theindividualcompany,ifgivenachoice,willoftenchoosenottouse theconsolidationcentre. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):WasitJowhomentionedthephrase technicalswap?idonotreally knowwhatthatmeans.doforgiveme.givemeanexample. JoGodsmark(CharteredInstituteofLogisticsandTransport):Ifyouhaveacardpayment[device]alot of,say,supermarketswilldoaswapforsometechnicalpart,apartofthetill,apartofthepayment[device]. Theywilljustswap.Ifsomethingisbroken,theywillswapitin. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Theyaredoinganinstallation? JoGodsmark(CharteredInstituteofLogisticsandTransport):Youhavetakensomeofthetechnical engineeringsupportandyouhavemadeitintoaswapthatcanbedonebyalogisticscompanyinstead. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Thevandriverdoesaquickinstallation? Page 22

29 JoGodsmark(CharteredInstituteofLogisticsandTransport):Youhavethepartsandyouhavethe swap,yes,andyouhaveaquickresponseaswell. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Yes. VictoriaBorwickAMMP:Itisapaymenttransaction? ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Itisabitofkitthatischanged. JoGodsmark(CharteredInstituteofLogisticsandTransport):No,sorry,thatwasjustanexample.Itis anypieceofkit.itcouldbealightbulb. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Effectively,ifyou assumethattheguywhocomestodeliveryournewwashingmachineinstallsitforyou,heisdoingthe technicalbitofitaswell.whenyouaredealingwithsometechnology-- ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Intheolddays,somebodywoulddeliveritandthensomebodyelse wouldturnupandinstallit. JoGodsmark(CharteredInstituteofLogisticsandTransport):Yes. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Alotofthelogistics companiesaredoingthattechnicalelementaswellandtheyareskillingtheirdriverstodomore. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Yes,thatisverygood.Wehavecometotheendofthequestionswe hadpreparedforthissection.arethereanyotherthoughtsandsuggestionsthatyouwouldliketomake, particularlyjoandchristopher,whowillbeleavingusnow,beforeyougo?arethereanyotherthingsthat youhadwantedtoconveytous? ChristopherSnelling(HeadofUrbanLogistics,FreightTransportAssociation):Justwrappingitup, thereareissueswiththeamountthatvansarebeingusedanditreallycomesbacktohowcustomersare wantingservices.thatistheprimarydriverforthatandsoitisgoingtocomebacktothatquestion. Therewerequestionsraisedinhereaboutclick-and-collectandhowthatwouldresolvesomeoftheissues.I justwantedtosaythatitdoesnotautomaticallybecause,ifpeopleareusingclick-and-collectandtheyare askingforsame-daydelivery,itcouldbeonevanhavingtoturnuptodeliveronepackagetoaclick-andcollectsiteratherthantoahomeoranoffice.itjustasubstitutionofjourneyratherthananelimination. Onceyouareintoexpectingsame-daydeliveryornamed-hourdelivery,thenitisthatdemandfrombusinesses andconsumersthatwilldrivethat.ifyouarelookingatmanagingvantraffic,thatistheseriousendofthe equationwehavetogetintoaboutwhatservicesareviableifthatbecomesanincreasingproblem. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Thatisvery,veryhelpful.Thatpromptsquitealotofthoughtsabout whetherornot,socially,wecouldaffordforpeopletohavewhattheywantwhentheywantit.maybethereis acosttothecommunitythatneedstobemadeexplicitbybecomingacosttotheconsumer. ChristopherSnelling(HeadofUrbanLogistics,FreightTransportAssociation):Yes,thatisthepoint. Goingbacktowhatweweresayingaboutout-of-hoursdeliveries,partofthereasonitworkedwellduringthe Olympicswas,becauseitwassuchahigh-profileevent,customershaditinmindandtheythoughtaboutit Page 23

30 andsaid, Yes,wewillchange.Whatwetendtofind-anditisanongoingsourceoffrustrationandIthink fortflaswell-isthatthecustomersoffreightdonottendtothinkaboutfreightverymuch.evenifweare thinkingaboutinstallingcyclinginfrastructureorsomething,tflhashadtoworkquitehardtogetbusinesses onthestreettothinkabouthowtheirdeliverieswillbemadeinfuturebecause,asfarastheyareconcerned, Somebodyelsedoesthat.IjusttellthemwhenIwantitanditturnsup.Integratingthatthinkingofhow yourunthebusinessandhowyouhavedeliveriesdoneisachallengingtopic. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Thatisveryhelpful. JoGodsmark(CharteredInstituteofLogisticsandTransport):Buildingonthat,really,Iwouldsaythat transportformanycompanies-notallbutmany-issometimesseenasalesscriticalpurchaseeventhoughit isactuallygoingtotheirfinalcustomer.theydonothavealotofvisibility,particularlywhenitisoutsourced andnotpartoftheirsupplychainwiththeirownemployees. Thenthereiswhatwehavetalkedabout,thistargetarea,wherenight-timedeliveries,consolidationand differentinitiativescancomeinandmakesurethatthatthinkingisjoined-upsothatwearenotproliferating thejourneysbutactuallyremovingacriticalmassofthem. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):OK.Thatisveryhelpful.Anybodyelsebeforewego?CanIthankJo [Godsmark]andChristopher[Snelling]inparticularforansweringourquestionsandforstartingtoopenthis wholeissueupforus?thisisthefirsttimetherehasbeenanypublicdebateonthetopicandsoitwasavery usefulexploration. Ifyouhaveanyotherthoughtsoranyfurtherinformationthatyoustumbleacross,pleasedodropusan orwritetous.wewouldbeverypleasedtohearfromyou.therewereafewthingsthatyousaidearlieron likehowtheregulatorypressuresonhgvsmaybecausingfragmentationintosmallervans.thatisobviously anissueofconcernforusbecausehgvsmightbeenvironmentallyefficientforfreightbuttheyareobviouslya problemintermsofcyclingandsafety.therearesomeverycriticalissues.ifyouhaveanyevidenceorany datathatyoufind,wewouldbeverygratefulforit. Wearegratefulforyourtimetoday.Thankyouverymuch.Itwasreallygreatevidenceandveryuseful. Thankyou. Page 24

31 SecondPanel ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Thankyouverymuchforcoming,everybody.Iknowoneortwoof youweresittingandwatchingthatsession.weareveryinterestedtohearwhatyouhavetosayaboutyour ownindustriesandwearegratefulforthewrittenevidencethatmanyofyouhavealreadygiven.thankyou verymuchforyourtimetoday. Doyouwanttogoaroundandintroduceyourselves? LaliVirdee(InstituteforSustainability):Yes.IamLaliVirdee.IworkfortheInstituteforSustainability. Wearearegisteredcharitybutouraimistodeliversomeoftheverydifficult,far-reachingandnewthinkingto thecommunityandseehowwecanencourageourcitiestobemoresustainable. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Verygood.Youarerightonthebutton. RichardCrook(FleetDirector,DHLExpressUK):IamRichardCrook.IamhererepresentingtheDHL ExpressdivisionintheUKbutIamalsohappytodiscuss,whereIcan,thewiderfamilyofDHLintheUKas well. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Thankyouforcoming. CharlieShiels(ExecutiveDirector,DPDGroupUKLtd):IamCharlieShiels.IamtheExecutiveDirector ofdpduk,theukdivisionoflaposte,thefrenchpostoffice.wearethelargestdomesticparcelcompany intheuk.wewilldeliverabout200millionitemsthisyear,ireckon.iamrepresentingdpd. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Yes,verygood.Thankyou. KevinGreenaway(NationalPlanningManager Logistics,Sainsbury s):hi.iamkevingreenaway.i amthenationalplanningmanagerandilookaftertransportprojects,transportdeliveriestostores,etc.ilook afterallthatsideofit,theactualprimaryratherthantheonlineaspects,butidohavealittlebitofinsightinto onlineaswell. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Iamsureyoudo.Thankyouforcoming.Ian[Wainwright]wehave alreadymet. NicholasDunn(HeadofTransportUK,Tescoplc):Hithere.IamNicholasDunn,HeadofTransportfor Tesco.IlookaftertheUKandIhavenothingtodowiththerestoftheworldatthemoment.Thankyou. VictoriaBorwickAMMP:Thankyouverymuchindeedandthankyouverymuchtoyouforcomingafew momentsearly.weareconsciousofthetimetoday. Thisisobviouslyareallyimportantsubject,particularlyfollowingonfromwhatwehaveheardpreviouslythis morning.perhapsthesortsofthingswearetalkingaboutareobviouslythesustainabledeliveryoptions: electricvehicles,cycles,anyotheroptionsyouthinkarerealisticallyfeasible.iknowthereisabroadrangeof topicsherethatmycolleaguesaregoingtopickupthismorningoverthequestionsandiamliterallyjust startingofftoday. Really,howfarissustainabilityaconsideration?Whataretheoptions?Whataretheincentives?Whothinks itisimportant?whodoesnot?whovaluesit?whodoesnot?dopeoplevalueitornotreally?dotheretail Page 25

32 companiesvalueitornotreally?ireallywouldlikejustbriefoptions.whowouldliketostartofforleadoff onthat? CharlieShiels(ExecutiveDirector,DPDGroupUKLtd):Isupposeinanswertothelastbitofyour questionandinanswertohowmuchourcustomersvalueitwhentheybuyourservices,idonotthinkthey valueitasmuchasyouwouldlikethemto.whattheyvaluemostlyisthequalityoftheservicewedeliverand thepriceoftheservicethattheyhavetopayustodeliver,whetherinlondonorinanyotherpartoftheuk youliveorilive.veryoften,majortendersfrommajorcompaniesthatwanttransportationserviceswill mentionitinthetender,butattheendofthedayitalwayscomesdowntothequalityoftheserviceandthe priceoftheservice. VictoriaBorwickAMMP:Absolutely.Didyouwanttotalkaboutsomeofthesustainabilityissues? LaliVirdee(InstituteforSustainability):Certainly.Thatisverycorrect.Whenyouaskcustomerswhoare buyingthingswhethertheywantthingstobedeliveredmoresustainably,anumberofthemwillsayyes. However,ifyouaskthemtopaymore,thentheywillprobablysayno.Muchofthatstuffhasbeenshuntedto thesideslightlyandtherearewaysaroundthatinordertoencouragepeopletousemoresustainablemodesof transport,toreconsiderhowconsolidationcentresworkandotherthingsaswell.thosefacilitiesareavailable. Someoftheprojectsthatanumberofushaveworkedonshowthatthosethingsactuallydowork,notjustin theshorttermbutthereisbusinessviability.quiteoften,whenyouareusingmoresustainablemethods,there isnotnecessarilyanincreasingcost.thatisveryimportantbecause,withsomeoftheincotermsthatpeople usewhentendersarebeingputtogether,aslightlydifferentwayofdoingthesamethingcanactuallyyielda muchbettermechanismandamoreeffectivemechanism. VictoriaBorwickAMMP:Onthelogisticsside,wouldanyofyourcolleagueswanttomakeanycomment aboutthat?isitaconsideration?arethepublicinterested?whoisinterested?whataretheincentives? RichardCrook(FleetDirector,DHLExpressUK):Yes.CertainlyfromaDHLpointofview,wedolookat itallthetimeandwewilltrialandtestthings.however,again,itisbackdowntothatbarriertoentry.there areelectricvehiclesoutthere. Listeningtoalotoftheconversationthismorning,itwasaboutcongestionintheCityandsoon.Frankly,we wouldendupputtingmorevehiclesintothecityifwewentdownatotalenvironmental,electric-typeroute becausethetechnologyjustisnotgoodenoughtoputoneelectricvaninasasubstituteforadiesel. VictoriaBorwickAMMP:Absolutely. RichardCrook(FleetDirector,DHLExpressUK):Thereareweightissues.Theyareinherentlyheavier andyoucannotputasmuchfreightonthem.theyaregenerallyasmallervehicleaswelland,again,you cannotputasmuchonthemandsoon.youarefindingthatyouarehavingtodoubleup.certainly,with someofthecostmodelswehavedone,wearesayingthattogodownanenvironmentalroute,youaretalking aboutatleasttwo-and-a-halftimesthecostofavehicle,plustwodrivers-- VictoriaBorwickAMMP:Thecongestion,therefore,isaproblem. RichardCrook(FleetDirector,DHLExpressUK):ItdoesnothelpcongestionintheCity.Eventhough thereisabitofbenefitfromacheaperfueltooperateandmaybecongestionchargingandallofthat,itdoes notactuallyoutweighthecosts. Page 26

33 VictoriaBorwickAMMP:TescologisticsorSainsbury s,whatwouldyousay? NicholasDunn(HeadofTransportUK,Tescoplc):Sustainabilitystartsoffwithmakingthebestuseof thecurrenttechnology.wedothatthroughanumberofmeans.weareworkingwithoursuppliersto standardisepalletheightssothatvehicleloadutilisationismaximisedongoodsin.weareworkingwithour warehousestoensurelayoutsmaximisethefillingoftheunitsofdispatchthatweuse.thoseunitsofdispatch arethenmaximisedonvehiclefillbycleverroutineandschedulingpackagesandweareutilisingsoftwareand adaptingthatsoftwaretogivethebestbenefitsforourfleet.weareworkingwiththerightsizeofequipment tomaximisethenumberofdropsthatcanbeontheroadatanyonetime,thereforeminimisingthetotal numberofvehicles.doingallofthatandmaximisingwhatyouhaveisthefirststep. Abitlikemycolleagueshavejustdescribed,wehaveworkedwithanumberofmanufacturers.Whatisthe future?wehavelookedatcompressednaturalgas.wehavelookedatelectricvehicles,etc.without repeating,itisveryhardtomakeitworkandbesustainableatthemoment. VictoriaBorwickAMMP:Youarerightonthetechnologyissues. KevinGreenaway(NationalPlanningManager Logistics,Sainsbury s):yes,itisexactlythesame thingsthatnicholashasjustalludedtotherefortesco.alltheretailersareprettymuchinthesameballpark whenitcomestoexploitingtheuseoftrains,double-decktrailers,etc. Wehaveinvestedquitesignificantlyinadual-fuelfleetandweprobablyhavethebiggestdual-fuelfleetinthe country.eventhatisquiteadifficultscenario.itisnowgettingmoreexpensive.theneweuro6enginesare notavailableindual-fuelmodelsandsowecannotgodownthenewfleetoptionforthose. WehaveexploredtheuseoftheThamesoutthere.Allofthesethingswehaveexploredandalltheretailers- Marks&Spencer,Tesco,us,Asda-havelookedatvaryingoptions.Itcomesdowntomakingthebestuseof whatisavailablenow.withthecongestionsideofthings,weareworkingwiththeguysattfltotrytoexploit morenightdeliveriesandtescoandourselvesareinvolvedinaconsortiumwithtflonthat. Therefore,realistically,wearetryingeverythingwepossiblycantomakeitbetter,butthereisnotanything absolutelybrand-newouttherethatisavailabletochangetheworldasweseeitatthismomentintime. VictoriaBorwickAMMP:Inevitably,nextMaywearegoingtohaveanewMayoranditwillbean opportunityforinfluencingonhisorherpolicies. Obviously,havingcomefromaslightbackgroundconnectedwithafailedelectricvanvehicle,Iamwellaware ofthetechnologyinthesensethatitisnotthereyet,butidourgeyoutocontinuetothinkaboutwhatanew Mayorcouldtodohelp.However,asyousay,untilwegetthetechnologyinthevehicle,itisprettydifficultto recommendanentirelyelectricrouteatthemoment.thatisprobablyquitesensible,butifyoudohavefuture policyoptions,ihopethatyouwillcontinuetokeepusuptospeed. Youtouchedbrieflyonrailandalsoriver.AsIsay,wearetryingtomovethemeetingon.Arethereplansto exploreotherrailconsolidationcentres,riverones,otherpassengerandfreighttransfer?canwemoveonto thatsideofthedebateaswell?whowouldliketoleadonperhapseitherrailorpassenger/freighttransportor outofhours?whataretheoptions?whowouldliketoleadonthat? Page 27

34 NicholasDunn(HeadofTransportUK,Tescoplc):Intermsoftrains,wecurrentlyoperatefivetrains.For example,ourtrainfromdaventrytoscotlandtakes32equivalentarticulatedvehiclesofftheroadeverydaysix daysaweekandsotrainshaveprovedverysuccessful.however,trainsonlyworkwhereyouhavethevolume andthedistancetomaketheeconomicsworkateitherendofloadingandunloading. Thatsaid,weareexploringtwomoretrains,onecomingdownfromthenortheastwherewehaveanon-food depotatmiddlesbrough,whichwasdesignedtomakeuseofdeep-seashipping.therehavebeensome challengeswiththedepthoftheportandtheavailabilityofthoseshipscomingintothenortheast,butthe depotfortescostillexistsandwearenowexploringwithacoupleofthecompaniesrealoptionstotrunkon thetrainratherthanontheroad.wecurrentlyusedouble-deckersandsothetrainhastoworkveryhard economicallytotakedouble-deckersofftheroadtoworkforus,butweareexploringthat. WearealsoexploringaroutefromDaventrytotheReadingarea,wherewealsohavealargedistribution depot.wehaverecentlylaunchedtwotrains,onetobarkingandessexfromthedaventryareaandonedown tojustoutsidecardiff,again,fromthedaventryarea. Therefore,trainsareverymuchpartofmythinkingandhopefully,astheroutesandtheoptionswithinrail grow,willprovetocontinuetobeagreatoptionforus. VictoriaBorwickAMMP:IfIbringthisbacktoLondonandTfL,oncewegettheNightTubeworking,do youthinktubecarriagescouldcarryfreightatnight?howdoestflseeitselfinthisever-growingmarketon bothtubesandobviouslynighttubes? IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Theissueforboth thetubeandformainlinepassengertrainsiswhereweprioritisethepeoplemovementasopposedtowhere weprioritisethefreightmovement.itisgettingthatbalancebecausethefreighttrainsthattescoreferredto are,effectively,paths.therearepathswithintherailnetworkthatallowthemtodothat. TheissueforusisthatthemajorityofTubestationsaredesignedforpeoplemovement.Theyaredesignedto getpeopledownundergroundandbackupagain.ifyoutrytotakestuff,youonlyhavetoseewhathappens atvictoriastationandallthetouristswiththeirsuitcasestryingtogodownstairstocomebackup. Wehavetalkedabouttheartofthepossible.Couldwedosomethingwithmetrointhemorning,intheearly hoursorsomething?thepracticalitiesofthathavetobereallyclear. VictoriaBorwickAMMP:Thatisfurtherreasonwhyeverythingshouldbedisabledaccessible,something thathasbeenagreatpassionofthiscommitteeforsometime. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Thereiscertainlythe accessibilityofstations,buttherehavebeensuggestionsofreopeningtheoldpostofficerailway. TomCopleyAM:Hooray! IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Onceagain,the issuewiththatisthatalotofthatwasbaggedmailthatwentdownachute.howdoyougetthestuffback up?howdoyougetthevolumes,thepalletsandtheroll-cagesthatmoderndistributionuses? KevinGreenaway(NationalPlanningManager Logistics,Sainsbury s):thereisthestorageofthem aswell.temperaturecontrolwouldneedtobeinvolvedwithalltheretailersaswell. Page 28

35 IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Certainlyoneofthe thingsthatwehavetolookatinfuturestrategicdirectionsis,in20or30years,shouldwebehavingan undergroundrailsystemthatisenabledtogetstuffrightintothecentreoflondon,maybebytrain,directly fromdaventry,forexample?arethereoptionsthatsayweshouldbedoingsomething-- VictoriaBorwickAMMP:IftheyarecomingintoReading,surelytheycanuseCrossrail.Oneofyoualso touchedontheriver.ithink,kevin,youdid. KevinGreenaway(NationalPlanningManager Logistics,Sainsbury s):yes. VictoriaBorwickAMMP:Couldyoutellusabitmoreaboutwhatyouhavebeendoingwithriversand canals.iamobviouslybringingustolondonforthemomentbecausethatisourpurview. KevinGreenaway(NationalPlanningManager Logistics,Sainsbury s):yes.thatwasaverylong timeago.itwasactuallywhenicamebackfrompaternityleaveandmysonisnineinjanuary.thatshows howlongagothatwas. Itprovedsuccessful.ItiseffectivelyaproofofconceptscenariowhereweusedwhatwastheCharltondepot, whichhasnowbecomeaconveniencedepotforus,todeliverintowandsworthandtothestorethere.they wereafternoondeliveriesandthatworkedwell.theproblemwithitisthereisnoinfrastructurethere.at eitherend,wehadtomocksomethingup.youcouldnotdothatonadailybasis.thecostofitwas somewherebetweenfiveandeighttimesmoreexpensivethanroaddeliveries.primarily,thatwasaroundthe factthatthereisnoinfrastructureatall. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Itisatidalriver. KevinGreenaway(NationalPlanningManager Logistics,Sainsbury s):thetidewouldkillitfor overnightdeliveriesbecauseeverydayyouaregettingnearlyanhourlater.whatcouldbeadeliveryat 1.00amonaMondayturnsouttobe5.00amonaFridayandthatdoesnotworkwithintheretailenvironment particularlywell. VictoriaBorwickAMMP:Afinalquestionfromme.HowdoyoulotcommunicatewithTfL?Thisis obviouslyreallyimportant.itisthefirsttimewehaveexamineditinthisway.obviously,therearelotsof thingsthatareinplanning.howdoyouliaise?youtalkedaboutthefuturetechnologyandthefuture strategy?howdoyouplanthattogether?obviously,thisissomethingthatisgoingto,iamsure,comeback inthefuture. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):DuringtheGames wepulledtogetherathingcalledthefreightforum,whichwasdesignedtotrytomakesurethatwehavea highlevelofdialoguewiththelargecompanies,largeorganisations,tradeassociationsandbusinessgroups. Whatwetrytodoisgeteverybodyintheroomtwiceayeartotalkaboutarangeofdifferentsubjectssothat thereisanoverviewofthat.wehaverelationshipswithalloftheorganisationstoanextent,perhapspartly notasclearlywiththeinstituteforsustainability,whichisprobablyanoverallissue,butwhoknows? Certainlywedothat,butwealsohaveone-on-oneconversations.TescoandSainsbury sarebothinthe Out-of-HoursConsortiumandwereallyhavethiswherewearetryingtoengagewiththeseorganisations. DHL,forexample,hasdevelopedan18-tondeliveryvehiclethatisgaspowered,hasasafehigh-visioncaband isquiet,whichtheyarenowusingforovernightdeliveriesforoneoftheretailersincentrallondon.weare Page 29

36 havingtheseconversationsaboutsomeofthisstuffandaboutwhatworks.onceagain,thathastakendhla lotofmoney.theworkthatsainsbury sandtescohavedonewiththeirovernightdeliverieshasalsobeen labourintensive,alabourofloveinmanycases. KevinGreenaway(NationalPlanningManager Logistics,Sainsbury s):iamnotsureaboutthelove! ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Sorry,Ian.Canyoujustsaywhatthecompanyisthere?Ijustmissed that. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):WithDHLwiththe vehicles,yes. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Thatisaveryusefulexample. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Itisnottheexpress sideofit.itismorethebulkdeliveryintoretailers,butitisworkingthroughthecontactsthatwehavewith DHL. RichardCrook(FleetDirector,DHLExpressUK):Again,thatismoreaproof-of-conceptdevelopment ratherthansomethingthatisfinanciallysustainabletogoandjustshiftyourentirefleetto. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Youaredoingapilotstudy. RichardCrook(FleetDirector,DHLExpressUK):Itisahugeinvestment.Itisastepthatasagroupwe tooktojustseewhetheritcouldactuallypracticallyworkifyoutook,dareisay,thefinancescompletelyto onesideandignoredthem. LaliVirdee(InstituteforSustainability):IwouldjustliketoreiteratewhatIan[Wainwright]wassaying.I haveworkedwithkevin[greenaway]onamajorfreightlogisticsmultimodalshiftprojectandthatwasquitean interestingthingthatwedid.thatwasacrossthewholeofeurope.dhlisoperatingthecamden consolidationcentre,whichispartofourlastmilelogistics(lamilo)project.wehavealsodoneproofof concepttrialswithtntandwithsainsbury soneustonandotherthings.thereisalotofworkingtogether. Asanorganisation,wealsogetinvolvedwithnewtechnologies.WehavebeenlookingattheDearmanengine -thenewnitrogen-poweredenginethere-andothertechnologies. Therefore,thereisinthebackgroundareasonableamountofdiscussion.WedoworkwithTfLquiteabit.We havesomedirectcontacts,asian[wainwright]wasmentioningearlieron,andwehavenamedcontactsbackin there.someoftheotherstuffthatwehavealsodoneiswithtflsurfacetransportaswell.weprobablyare talkingtoeachotherandwearedoingcertainthings. Thebigproblemisthatcreatingthismassivesea-changeisgoingtoberatherslowandtheseproof-of-concept typesofscenariowillbegintogrow.astheygrowmoreandmore,theeconomicsofthemwillbecomebetter. SomeoftheprojectsthatwehaverunningthroughLaMiLoarenowcommerciallyviableandtheywillcontinue togrow.thatiswhereweneedtostart.wecanslowlychipawayattheregulatoryissuesandthelegislative issuesandthenwealsohaveachange-of-behaviourissueaswell. VictoriaBorwickMPAM:Thathasbeenareallygoodintroduction. Page 30

37 ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Thankyouverymuchforthat.Oneofthethingsweareheretodoin away,lali,istoopenallthatuptothepublicarenabecauseitwillhelppushthingsalong,eveninaregulatory framework. CanIjustgobackquicklytoanissuethatwemeanttofindoutmoreaboutthathasnottakenoff?Obviously therewasbitofadiscussionthereaboutquiteheavymajorfreight.ourfocusforthispurposeisreallythe deliverytothesmallbusinessandthesmallcustomer,theretaildeliveriesandtheimpactthatishavingon Londonatthemoment. Wehadsomeevidenceinfromanorganisationthatdoescargobikedeliveries.Doesanyonewanttocomment onwhetherornotthecargobikecouldbeausefulplayerintermsofretail-styleorsmallbusiness-style deliveriesinlondon? LaliVirdee(InstituteforSustainability):IfIkickoff,IthinkyouaretalkingaboutGnewtCargo. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Yes.Doyouknowthem? LaliVirdee(InstituteforSustainability):Yes.Weworkedindirectlywiththem.Theyweregoingtodo someworkwithdhlonthecamdenconsolidationcentrebutitdidnotquiteworkout. However,bywayofanalogy,oneoftheotherpilotswithintheLaMiLoprojectisanorganisationcalledthe GreenLink.TheyusecargobikesinthecentreofParis.TheydelivertothreepostcodeswithinParis.They haveaspeciallyadaptedelectric-poweredbicyclethathasacabinattheback.itisunderthelimitforbeing consideredamotorisedvehicleandsoitdoesnothavetocomplywithanyoftheotherregularthings.itdoes notgetchargedthecongestionchargeanditdoesnotgetparkingfines.itstillhastobeinsuredand, therefore,thosethingsarecovered.ithasareasonableloadcapacity;200kilogramsiswhatitcancarry.it doesthreerouteseverysingledayforeachoneofthedrivers.thathasbecomequitesuccessfulwithinparis. Ithasopenedthreeconsolidationcentresbasedonthatprinciple.Wearerunningaspecialglobalpositioning system(gps)platformtooptimiseautomaticgpstrackingofallofthatstuff.themainpeoplethatusethat servicearetntanddhlinparis.itisextremelysuccessfulandextremelyreplicable.thatisthethingwith these:toshowthatitcanbereplicated.thatparticularorganisationisnowtakingthatandreplicatingitin Maastricht.ItislookingtodosomeworkinAntwerp.IthasalsobeenbackinLondonandtalkingtosome organisationswithinlondontoseewhethertheycanreplicatethatandworkwiththelikesofgnewttodo that. Gnewthasaverysimilarprincipleaswellinthatitwantstocarrylargergoods,morevolumeandmoreweight sothatitcanbecomeeconomicallyviable.eachoneofthesevehiclesdeliverssomethingintheregionof 500to1,200parcelsperday.Volume-wiseitisobviouslynowherenearthethingsthesebigorganisations have.again,asaproofoftrialandaproofofconcept,itisnowcommerciallyviable.ithastakenbigtrucks andvans-andindeedalsoelectricvehicles-offroadsandreplacedthemwiththesepedal-poweredvehicles, whichareabsolutelyfantasticandareworkingreallywell. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Ithasaroletoplay. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Theycertainlywork incertainareas.gnewtisaroundthecityandparticularlyaroundsomeoftheareasinthewestend. ParticularlywhenyouconsiderWestEndplaceslikeLeicesterSquareandthingswheretheroadsareclosedoff, itisveryusefultobeabletoaccessindifferentways.itisabouttherightvehicleattherighttime.thereis noway-ifyoutakeyourlocaltescoorsainsbury sconveniencestore-thatfourorfivearticulatedlorriesa Page 31

38 dayaregoingtobereplacedbycargopoweredbikes.itisgettingtherightmixinplace.itishavingthe facilitiestoenablethecargobikestobelocatedsomewhere,totakestuffoutofabiggervehicleandtoputit intoasmallervehicleforsomeareas,whereasinotherplacesitcouldbetakingstuffoutofthesmallvansand puttingitintoabiggervehicletobedeliveredinbulktoanarea.itisgettingthatmix.theyareanessential partofthemix,iwouldsay,butaspartofthewholeanddependentonawholeseriesofdifferentelements. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Thatisveryhelpful. CharlieShiels(ExecutiveDirector,DPDGroupUKLtd):Itisafairlyquietdaytodayforus.Weare deliveringprobably150,000itemsinsidethem25.wehaveeightdepotsbasedaroundlondontoservice London sneeds.onthebusiestdayoftheyearitwillbedoublethatamount,iwouldimagine,some300,000. Ifyouareaskingmetobehonest,canIseemeputtingdriversonbikesdeliveringparcelstoyourhousesin Walthamstow?No,Icannot,absolutelynot.ThereisaplaceandatimeandIcanseeitincertainlocations, buttherealityistherewillbehealthandsafetyissuesandtherewillbeallsortsofissuestodowithit.iam notbeingnegativebecausewewilldowhateverwecan. Therealityisthatcustomersdemandmoreandmoreeveryday.Thefashionindustrywantstooffercustomers aslateasmidnightacut-offthenightbeforefornext-daydelivery.thefashionpeoplearecompetingagainst eachother.wearegettingparcelsinjectednowuntil1.00aminthemorningfordeliveryinlondonby 10.00amthenextmorning.Werunaveryefficientandeffectiveoperationthatmakessurewecandothat, andacost-effectiveelementtobeabletomakeafewpoundsandtocarryonemployingpeople. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Youwillnotbeusingbikes.Wegetthatmessage,Charlie.Itisquitea volume. RichardTraceyAM:Justbrieflyfortherecordreally,Chair,inmyroleinpromotingrivertransport; KevinGreenawaymentionedthevariousattemptsthatwemadefromtheMayor sofficeandfromsainsbury s toopenupsomesortroutetowandsworth.whatwefoundisthatofcoursethelackofwharvesdefeatsthis. TheotherthingIshouldsayisthatthePortofLondonAuthorityisreportingconsiderablegrowthinriver transportbutittendstobefromconstructionprojects.theblackfriarsbridgeuseditalot.crossrailhas.the TidewayTunnelwill,aswilltheNorthernlineextensionintoNineElms.Allthatuseofrivertransportwill,we hope,takealotoflorriesofftheroad. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Ithasbeenheavyfreight. KevinGreenaway(NationalPlanningManager-Logistics,Sainsbury s):iftheinfrastructurewasthere, Idothinkpeoplecoulduseitanduseitsuccessfully. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Yes,thatisveryclearlynoted. MuradQureshiAM:Similarly,asChairoftheLondonWaterwaysCommission,wehavebeenadvocating waterfreightforaverylongtime. Switchingfromtheriverstothecanals,youmentionedtheproblemabouttides.Atleastyoudonothavethat problemonthecanalsandinnorthlondonwedohaveanetwork.doyouseescopetousethatatleast? Page 32

39 KevinGreenaway(NationalPlanningManager-Logistics,Sainsbury s):wedidlookatcanalsatthe time.thethamesmadesensebecauseyoucouldcomefromadepotaroundthedartford-charltonareainto centrallondonandhaveawholesetofstoresthatyoucoulddeliverfairlyclosetowhereyouwouldgetoff theriver.thosewouldbeveryspecificroutes.youhavetobeveryluckywithyourpositioningofadepotand yourpositioningofastore.youhavetohaveenoughstorestomakeitviable.also,canalsareveryslow. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Afour-mile-an-hourlimit,yes. MuradQureshiAM:Ian,youmadeacommentaboutluggage.Isittimetoconsidermovementsofluggage asfreightgiventhatgatwickisactuallyofferingthatserviceandcopyingwhattheydoinjapan?thatwould takealotofstressoffthetubesysteminplaceslikepaddington,earl scourt,hammersmith. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Therehastobea businessmodelintheresomewhere,iwouldsuggest.asyousay,theydoitinjapanintokyo.itisaservice thatiknowisofferedinswitzerlandaswell.thereissomethingtheretobesaidforit,butitistheguarantee. CertainlyRegentStreethasconsidereddoingittheotherway.Ratherthantheshoppertakingstuffoutofthe shop,itwillgetpickedupanddeliveredtoyourhotel. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):Iwanttolookatafeatureofe-commerceinclick-and-collect. Iamabigfanofallthisonlineshopping,Ihavetosay.Itisfantastic. Whatdowethinkisthepotentialroleofclick-and-collectservicesintryingtoreducevantraffic?Howcan theseservicesbeenhanced?wehavedonesomesurveyworkoflondoners.withinthat,itseemedalotof peoplewerenotusingclick-and-collectanddidnotfollowiteventhoughtheymaywelldoonlineshopping. Isthatthewayforwardtoreducelotsofthesesmallerdeliveryparcelstopeople shomes? IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Itisoneofthose thingsagain:asaninternetshopper,whichmodeldoyouwanttofollow?forsomepeople,itsuitstheir lifestyles.itisalso-asisaidearlier-thefactthatthemarketisfragmentedslightly.theimpressionwehad wasthatalotoftheretailerswereconcernedtheywerelosingthefootfallintothestoreandthereforepeople werebuyingspeculativelywhentheywentintothestore.thereseemedtobeasea-change.iamsure colleaguestomyleftwillcorrectmeifiamwrong.whenjohnlewisannouncedafterchristmasthatithad 56%ofitsinternetordersasclick-and-collectstooneofitsstores,everybodywent, Howthehelldiditdo that?canwehavesomeofthat,please? Itdrivesthatfootfallback.Thereisanissuetherefortheretailers asindividualretailers. Theothersideofitisthevariousmodelsthatpeoplehaveputinplaceandtheirinterchangeability.Asa consumer,ifyoubuysomethingonedayfromjohnlewis,thenextdayfromargosandthenextdayfrom somewhereelse,canyouactuallygotooneplace-whichhappenstobeyourlocalplace-ordotheyallrunin differentdirections?thefactisthatyouhavecollectplus,doddleandinpost;differentwaysofdoingthis stufftowhatsuitsyourlifestyle.thatiswhythingslikeamazonareinteresting.onamazonyoucanbuy almostanythingandthenyouhaveamazonprimethatsays, Wewilldeliverittoyouinanhourorcomeand collectitfromoneofourlocations.itishowmuchchoicetheconsumerhasandwhatmodeltheretailers wanttofollowtogetthecustomerloyaltyandthecustomerfootfallintotheirstores. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):Intermsoftryingtoreducevehiclesontheroads,something likeclick-and-collect,whichipresumejustgetsputintothevehiclethatisgoingtodelivertothatstore-- Page 33

40 IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Notoften.Theyare oftencomingthroughdifferentsupplychains.itdepends.ifyoutakesomethinglikejohnlewis,youcan click-and-collecttoawaitrosestore.thestuffthatisgoingtoajohnlewiswouldnotbenormallydelivered toawaitrosestoreandsoitisanotherdeliverytothatwaitrosestore. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):OK.Inmymind,Ialwaysthoughtthatwhateveryouhave orderedgoesintothevanthatisgoingtothatstore. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Itcertainlyhas potential.ifyoucouldsaytherearenovandeliveriescomingintopeople sofficesincentrallondonbecause theyarebeingdonethroughclick-and-collecttowheretheyliveinthesuburbsoroutsideoflondon,itwould beadefinitewin.itishowtoachievethat. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):Actually,peoplegetitdeliveredneartowheretheywork, generally. KevinGreenaway(NationalPlanningManager-Logistics,Sainsbury s):withinourmodelatthe moment,thatvolume-ifitwasaclick-and-collectfoodorder,forexample-wouldbedeliveredintothestore fromthedepotnetwork.wearegoinginasimilarwaytotescoandotherpeopleintermsofhavingonline consolidationcentres,verysimilartothedepotnetwork.wewillthendeliveroutfromthosetopeople s homesratherthanfromthestoreangleaswewouldcurrentlyforonline.ifitisaclick-and-collectorder,itwill prettymuchcomestraightintothestorefromthedepot.youwillnothaveacompletelyseparatejourney.it wouldcomeinwiththatmainvolume. Ideally,youwouldwantpeopletocomeintoyourstoreforclick-and-collectbecause,asyousay,yougetthat extrafootfall.youwouldordinarilyhavetheclick-and-collectatthebackofthestorebecauseyouwant peopletogopastanumberofshelvesinthefirstplace. Intermsofonlineandthingslikethat,wewouldsaythatwewouldactuallybesavingcarbondioxide(CO 2 )in termsoftheonlinedeliveries.thestudythatwehavedonewithimperialcollegewouldsuggestthatithas actuallysavedco 2 becauseithassavedmultiplejourneysintothestorefromcustomersintheirowncarswhen youareactuallyputtingtenordersorsointoonevan.itisquiteasaving.fromasainsbury sperspective-in termsofthewaywewouldreportco 2 -itwilllookworseforusbecausewethenadoptthatco 2 insteadofthe customerandsoweendupbringingthatintoourscopeofreporting.wedothink-andithasbeenstudied withimperialcollege-thatitwouldsaveco 2. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):Focusingonclick-and-collect,Nicholas,intermsofTesco,you andsainsbury sarepullingoutofclick-and-collectattransporthubs,whichwastriedinlondon.asdawas partofitaswell.icertainlykeptseeinganasdavanwheniwentuptohighgateoutsidethestation.isitjust becausepeopleweredrivingthereorisitthatfinanciallyitwasnotworking? NicholasDunn(HeadofTransportUK,Tescoplc):IfIcanjustgobackontheclick-and-collectbitand thencomebacktoyourspecificpoint,tesco,likesainsbury s,hasanumberofroutestomarketforclick-andcollect.click-and-collecthasprovedextremelypopularwithourcustomers,whichhasthenseengrowthinthe Londonareaofthededicatedclick-and-collecthubsthatdeliverstraighttothecustomer.Themajorityof groceryandfoodshoppingstillridesthroughthemainnetworktothestoreandsowearenotcreating additionalvehiclestothestore. Page 34

41 Intermsofonlineshoppingfornon-fooditems,thenumberonepriorityforlotsofreasons,including sustainability,istogothroughthetesconetworkandnottocreateadditionaltraffic.whatwethendoiswork withourparcelfirms-forexample,yodelanddpd-andwewillconsolidatemanyparcelsforastorefor differentcustomersintotheonelargermasterparcel.thatthereforethenreducesthenumberoftripsthat vanhastomaketoaparticularstore. Intermsoftriallingothermethodsofclick-and-collectinareasawayfromthestore,forexample,wedidtrial lockersandwedidextendthetrialforalongerperiod.unfortunately,thatdidnotproveaspopularwithour customersandwewerenotabletosustainthat.itishardtodescribeallthereasonsbutmysuspicion probablyiswehavesuchagoodstorenetworkthatitwasjustaseasyforthecustomertogotothestore. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):Topopin,yes.Didyougetanyfeedbackonitasyourpartof it,ian? IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Beingalandlord,we getthegreatestcommercialvaluefromanindividualretailerbeingatthesite.theissueforthecustomersis thatoutofallofthepassengersarrivingatatubestation,apercentagewillnormallyshopatsainsbury sanda percentagewillnormallyshopattesco,waitrose,asdaorwherever.consequently,unlessthereisamultiple offeringtheretomaximisethefootfall,youareautomaticallysegmentingpartofyouraudience.hopefully, theretailersassume,iexpect,thatthatispartoftheway, Wecangetmorebusinessbecausewearehere.It isalsoamatterofwhetheritfitsinwithpeople snormalpatternsandthepatternstheyareusedto. KevinGreenaway(NationalPlanningManager-Logistics,Sainsbury s):theconveniencemodelfor everyone-tescoaswellasus-iscolossalinlondon.tenyearsago,itwas40%convenienceand60% supermarkets.itiscompletelythereverseofthatnow,almostexactly.nowyouhavemorechanceofwalking downthestreetandtherewillbeasainsbury soratesco.youhavelessneedforthosekindsofthingsnow anditisgrowingallthetime. CharlieShiels(ExecutiveDirector,DPDGroupUKLtd):Click-and-collectisaboutchoiceforthe consumer.itisoneofanumberofoptions.thereisahierarchicalpreferencewhenpeoplearegettinga parcelathome.thenumberonepreferenceis, Getittomyhouse.Numbertwois, Getitnearmyhouse, maybedeliveredtoaneighbour. Leavesafe isanotherverypopularway.theytellusexactlywherethey wantustoleavetheparcelandthenitis, AstoreorashopmaybenearbywhereIlive.Theleastfavoured optionisatadepotsomewhere20milesaway.thataggravatespeople.whenyougethomeatnightandyou getthecardthroughyourdoorthatsays, Wecameandyouwerenotin,youthenwantittosay, Itiswith number24,or, Itiswiththestoredowntheroad,or, Itisinyourgreenhouse,whichiswhatyouaskedme todo.youthenthink, Thatisgood.Iamhappywiththat.Thatisthereality. Inanswertothequestion,Iagreethatlogictellsyouthatifyouaredeliveringtotendifferentplacesandyou nowdeliverthosetenitemstooneshopnetworkinthecentreofavillagesomewhere,thenyourmileagewill reduce,yourstopswillreduceandyourefficiencywillincrease.click-and-collecthasanimportantparttoplay, alongwitheverythingelse,inthefuture.itisgrowing.customerslikeit. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):Oneoftheissuesisvehiclesdrivingaround,misseddeliveries andallthat,thefrustrationforthecustomerandthecosttoyouasanoperatoraswellinhavingtostorethem somewhere.whatareyoudoingtotrytoimprovethatlogistically?thatincreasesvehiclemovementsonthe roads?ihaveseensomecompanieswhereyouwillgetatextwithalinkanditsays, Youaredeliverynumber 54todayforthisvan. Page 35

42 CharlieShiels(ExecutiveDirector,DPDGroupUKLtd):Thatisus,yes. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):OK, Thisisapproximatelywhattimewethinkwewillbewith you.iwaslovingit.ijustkeptlookingallmorningatwherethisvanwas,howmuchitwasdeliveringand howfast.iknewwhattimeitwasgoingtoarriveatmyhome,whichmeanticouldpopoutandknowiwas notgoingtogetthecardthroughthedoor.aretheremoredevelopments? CharlieShiels(ExecutiveDirector,DPDGroupUKLtd):Noneofyouwouldwantafaileddeliveryand youdonotfromalondonpointofviewbecauseitmeansanadditionaljourney.weareobsessedwith successfuldelivery.thatiswhywenowinteractwithpeople.wehavecustomerslikeamazon,whichgivesus alotofparcelseverydayandwantsthemdeliveredtoyouandmeasconsumers.ourcommercialrelationship iswithamazonbutwewanttointeractwithyouasitscustomerandsay, Look,wearecomingtoday.Areyou in?wearegoingtobethereabout3.00pmifyouaregoingtobein.ifyouarenot,tellusandwewillcome tomorrow,leaveitwithyourneighbour,leaveitsafeforyouorleaveitinyourshopnetwork,whicheveryou prefer.thatiswhatconsumerswant.theydonotwanttobefrustratedwhentheyhaveorderedgoodstobe deliveredtotheirhome.ithasanimportanttoplayinthesupplychain. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):Doyouthinkasmoreandmorebanks,forexample,andplaces atcanarywharfarebanningstafffromreceivingnon-work-relatedparcels-andicanunderstandwhybecause Ihaveseenthepostroomhere,particularlyrunninguptoChristmasandthestufftheygetin-isthere thereforeagreaterroleforcollectionlockersandtheshopnetwork,whichisagreatdevelopmentaswell? CharlieShiels(ExecutiveDirector,DPDGroupUKLtd):Yes.Again,wehaveseenthat.Initially,delivery toworkwasencouraged.wehaveb-to-bdeliveries,businesstobusiness,andwehaveb-to-cdeliveries, businesstoconsumer.fortheconsumerdeliveries,lotsweregoingtobusinessaddressesandyourealisedthat ofcoursetheyareorderingittotheirworkplacebecausetheyarenotgoingtobein.then,whenyouare delivering300packagesinonegotoabankinlondon,theyaresaying, Hangonaminute.Wearebecoming adeliveryagent,andtheyhavebannedit. Youneedtogivetheconsumerchoicebecausetheyarenotgoingtobein.Theyeitherwantitleftwitha neighbourortobeabletopickitupatarailwaystationatoneoftheestablishmentsthatarenowupand running.itisallaboutgivingthemthechoice. IfIcannotgetitatworkwhatcanIdo?Iwillgetittoashop (a)nearbythestationwhereiliveor(b)nearbymyhousesoicandoitatonepartofmyjourneyhome. That isonlygoodforsmallerpackages.youdonotwanttoseelotsofparcelsonthetubeandonthetrains.you cannotbewalkingalongwithafridge.ithastoverycarefullythoughtthrough,ofcourse. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):Ian,whatisTfLdoingtoreallypromotethisideaofcollection lockersandotherthingsthatcanhelpwiththis? IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Itispartof consolidation.wetalkedaboutconsolidationcentresearlier.itisthesameprincipleofhowyouconsolidate thetripsthatareoccurring.backtomyoriginalpointearlierthismorning,whatisthecommodity,whatisthe originandwhatisthedestination?whatwearetryingtodowiththisisgetafeeloftheflavourofthe volumesandwherethevolumesareheadingandalsothetypesofcommodities.whatyouaredoingwith freshfoodhastobeslightlydifferentfromwhatyoumaybedoingwithdrygoodsoraparcelthatyouordered fromasusorsomething.istheresomeformofblandcollectionpointthatisavailableateverytubestationor everyrailwaystationsothateverycommutercancollecttheirfoodandcandothisorthat? Page 36

43 Itistryingtoidentifywhatthegapisand,inasense,whatTfL sroleis.dowepromoteindividualtypesof activity?asalandlord,wehaveaveryclearroleintermsofmaximisingthecommercialincome.wheredoes ourrolefitinsomeofthiswhenthemarketisstillinthisfluxofwhereitisgoing?ifwestarttryingtoputin place thesolution,whatwillhappeniswewillendupwithlotsofpeoplepullingusinanumberofdifferent directions.wehavetobeverymuchawareofthedebateandworkoutwhattheroleisandlookathowwe caninvestigatecertaindifferenttypesofsolutionandkeepincontactwithalloftheplayersandthemarket- CollectPlus,Doddleandalltheseothertypesofpeople-sothatweunderstandthoseintegrators,asitwere,as wellastheindividualdeliveryagentsorretailersthatmightbedrivingsomeofthatactivity. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):Doesanyoneelsehaveanythingelse?Ihavenotspokento RichardorLali[Virdee].Doyouhaveanythingtoaddoninternetshoppingandhowwecanreducethevehicle movementswithoutinfringingonconsumerchoice,whichhasopenedawholeworldtomanypeople? RichardCrook(FleetDirector,DHLExpressUK):Thatisthedebateagain:itisdowntothatcriticalmass. Obviously,fromaDHLpointofview,alotofourpackages,quiteobviously,areinternationalparcels.Theyare adifferentvalueagain.thereisdifferentlegislationandsoon.itisnotaseasytoleavewithaneighbouror leaveinasafeplace.wedosomeofthatwhereitisviableforustodoit,butalotofthetimeweneed signaturesandthereareprocessesthathavetobegonethroughforaparcelthateitherisgoingtofinditsway ontoanaeroplaneorhascomeoffanaeroplane.thereareallthosechallengestogetaroundaswell,along withattheendofthedayyouhaveacustomer-beitabusinesscustomerorprivateconsumer-whohas pressedthebuttontosay, AtmiddaytomorrowIwantmypackagefromNewYorkinmyhand.Thisisthe wayiwanttodoitbecausethatsuitsmylifestyle.thatcanbecompletelydifferenttotheother 100customersjustbeforethem. CharlieShiels(ExecutiveDirector,DPDGroupUKLtd):Someofitisthee-commercecompanies.Allof usaregettingbetter.atthepointofpurchasethereisnowaprompt, Willyoubein? Theinformationis better. Whenwillyoubein?Whendoyouwantit?IfyouarenotinWednesday,doyouwantitThursday? Thatclearlyalsowillreducefaileddeliveriesbecausenoneofuswantfaileddeliveries.Faileddeliveriescostus money.wewanttogotothedeliverypointanddeliverthegoods.thatiswhatwewanttodo. LaliVirdee(InstituteforSustainability):RichardandCharliearequitecorrect.Relinquishing responsibilitybyorganiseddeliverycompanieshasbeenmuchbetternow.afewyearsagotheywouldnever haverelinquishedanyresponsibility.overthelasttwotofouryearstheyhavestartedtoletgoalittlebitof that.clearlytherearecertainplacesthatyoucangowherepeoplehavetakencompletedecisions.ifyougo togreenwichmillenniumvillage,youarenotallowedtohaveanydeliveries.everythinggoesintoone consolidationspacewherealltheresidentscomeandcollecttheirparcels.therearenopeopledrivingaround willy-nillywaitingforparcels.youknowitisgoingtocometothatplaceandyougoandpickitup. Wehavealsohadexamplesofwheresub-consolidationhashappened.Therearethreeorfourbadexamples ofthisineuropewheretheyhavefailedbecausepeoplejustdonotwanttosubscribetoyetanotherservice wheretheygoandjoininasasafeplacetohavedeliveryandthengetitredeliveredtothemselves. AsIan[Wainwright]wassaying,thereisamultitudeofdifferentapproaches.Youhavetolookattheonethat fitsthatparticularscenariothebest.inmyexperience,inthelasttwotofouryearsorganisationshavestarted torelinquishsomeofthatresponsibility.aslongastheycanstilltrack-and-tracewherethatthingisanditstill talksbacktotheirindividualsystems,theyarehappytosay, OK,youcandoabit. VictoriaBorwickMPAM:Howwouldyougetawashingmachinedeliveredandfittedifyoucouldnothave avangoingaround? Page 37

44 LaliVirdee(InstituteforSustainability):Onthatparticularbit,Iamtalkingaboutthesmallerparcels. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):Youaretalkingaboutsmallerstuff.Thankyou. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Thankyou.Thatisveryhelpful. TomCopleyAM:Iwanttoturntotheissueofdronesfordelivery,whichissomethingtheMayorhas expressedsupportfor.itcapturedhisimagineinawaythatonlysomethingoutlandishpossiblycan.how outlandisharethey?aretheyafeasiblealternativetocurrentdeliveryoptions?iaminterestedtohearfrom theretailersfirst. KevinGreenaway(NationalPlanningManager-Logistics,Sainsbury s):idonotspecificallyknow whatsizeofdroneheisthinkingabout.icannotimaginethattheyaregoingtobeagreatdealofuseforeven ahomedelivery.theycertainlywillnotbeanyusefordeliveringtostores.istrugglewiththevisionof multiplethousandsofdronesflyingoverlondon.youwouldnotwanttobeabirdatthatpointintime.i cannotseeit.itmayworkforverysmall,veryexpensivepackagesthatneedtogoacrosslondoninavery, verytimeconstrainedmanner.idonotseeitworkinginanyotherway. TomCopleyAM:IthasonlybeentrialledbyAmazon,hasitnot,fordeliveringaDVDorsomethinglikethat? KevinGreenaway(NationalPlanningManager-Logistics,Sainsbury s):itwouldhavetobesomething morethanadvdbecauseiwouldimagineitisgoingtobeveryexpensive. TomCopleyAM:Yes.Also,therearequestions.Doyouhavetohaveagardenforittolandin?Whatif youareinthebottomflat?doyouhavetobeathome?whereisitgoingtobelocated? KevinGreenaway(NationalPlanningManager-Logistics,Sainsbury s):itstilllookslikeyouwould havetobethere.fromeverythingihaveseen,itlookslikeyouwouldhavetoliterallystandthereandaccept itoffthedroneforittoflyaway.thatdoesnotgetyouawayfromtheissueofstillneedingtobeathome. TomCopleyAM:Ianseemsverykeen. KevinGreenaway(NationalPlanningManager-Logistics,Sainsbury s):ianwantsatfldrone. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):Theyprobablyhaveone! IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Iwillmakeno commentonthat.currentlytherearecivilaviationrulesthatsaythatanybodyflyingadronehastohavesight ofitforprivatereasons.obviouslythereisawholeissueaboutmilitarydrones. Thereareanumberofissues.Thequestionisthepracticalityofthem.Therearesomeoptions,potentially,for placesliketheoutbackinaustraliawhereyouaretryingtodeliverasmallthingtoafardistance. TheotherthingIwouldsayasanindividualistolookatwhenthestoriesaboutthesethingsbreakinthe media.thethingaboutamazonanddroneshappenedtodropdownaboutthebeginningofnovemberlast year.amibeingtoocynical?thepointisthatitwasinthebuild-uptochristmas.itisthisspeedofaccessto something.alotofwhatthecustomerserviceofferingisaboutisthespeedofaccess.peoplewillcontinueto Page 38

45 trialandpeoplewillcontinuetopushwhatistechnicallypossiblebutitisaboutgivingconsumerchoice.itis consumerchoicethatisdrivingalotofthisactivity. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):IamgladthatyoumentionedtheCivilAviationAuthorityguidance, Ian.ThisquestionwentonbeforeIreadthat.AfterIreadit,Ithoughtyoucouldnotpossiblywiththese regulationsanywhereinlondonbecausetheyaresosafetyandprivacyfocusedthatitwouldnotbea workableoption.itisinterestingtoknowthat. RichardCrook(FleetDirector,DHLExpressUK):Wehaveputahelicopterontogetintocertainpartsof Londonmorequickly,butitisallaboutspeedforthecustomer.Itisnot,beingbrutallyhonestwithyou, aboutefficienciesfordhlandsoon.itisverycustomer-specificdrivenandthereisacosttoit. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):WehaveconcernsabouthelicoptersinLondon,particularlyfroma noisenuisancepointofview.thatisnotnecessarilysomethingwewouldwanttopromote,particularlyfor peoplewithriparianconstituents,becausehelicopternoiseisasignificantissueforus. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):Yes. IanWainwright(HeadofFreightandFleetProgrammes,TransportforLondon):Acoupleof thousandbuzzingdronesoveryourheadswouldequally-- ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Peopledoingshoppingbyhelicopterwouldbeworsethandrones. Thankyouverymuch.Iknowyouareincrediblybusypeople.Ihopeyouhavefounditinterestingtobehere andtohelpopenthisissueupabittothepublicgaze.itisverymuchappreciated.ifthereisanythingelse youliketosayurgentlynoworwouldliketooffertowriteinandgiveusabitmoreevidence,pleasedoso. Wewillbeaimingtoproduceareportthatexploressomeofthisworkandinparticulartakealookatthe validityofwhattflisdoing.indeed,tflseemstobedoingmorethanwehadbeenawareof.wearequite pleasedwiththat.itisreallygreattotalktopeoplewhoactuallydothejobsandmakelondonworkandsoit ismuchappreciated. Anylastcommentsfromanyofyou? RichardCrook(FleetDirector,DHLExpressUK):Ifwejustnipbacktothestartwhenwetalkedabout electricvehiclesandweight,forme-fromapayloadpointofview-oneofthingsthatwouldreallyopenup someofthedoorstoreducingthenumbersofvehiclesisaroundthatthresholdofwhatavanisallowedto ultimatelyweigh.three-and-a-halftonsisthepayloadcapacityofavan,whetheritiselectricordiesel.that isquiteoldintermsofitsunderstanding.itisallaboutthesafetyofvehicles50yearsagoversusthesafetyof vehiclesnow.iknowitisamassivetopictogetaround,butifwecouldgetthatweightthresholdliftedto maybeevenjustfourtonswecouldactuallyputmoreparcelson-- ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Justforelectric? RichardCrook(FleetDirector,DHLExpressUK):Onadieseleven,dareIsay.Itwouldgiveusthelegal abilitytoputmoreparcelsonthevehiclesothatwecouldexpandthecatchmentarea. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Thatisveryhelpful,Richard. Page 39

46 RichardCrook(FleetDirector,DHLExpressUK):Itisahugetopictogetintointermsofhowyouwould legislateforthat. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Ifyouhavetimetowritetousaboutsomeofthetechnicalissues there,itwouldbeverywellreceived.wewillbeproducingareportonthis.anythinglikethatwewillbe expressinginthereportandsothankyouverymuchforthat. CarolinePidgeonMBEAM(DeputyChair):Itwasveryuseful. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Ofcourse,ourstuffdoesgetreadbynationalpeople.Evidence suggeststhatwedoinfluencetheagendaandsothatwouldbefantasticallyhelpful.thankyou. RichardCrook(FleetDirector,DHLExpressUK):Iwilldothat. ValerieShawcrossCBEAM(Chair):Thankyou,allofyou,foryourtimetoday.Itisverymuchappreciated. Verygood.Thankyou. Page 40

47 Agenda Item 5 Subject:SummaryListofActions Reportto: TransportCommittee Reportof:ExecutiveDirectorSecretariat Thisreportwillbeconsideredinpublic Date:15October Summary 1.1 ThisreportsetsouttheactionsarisingfrompreviousmeetingsoftheTransportCommittee. 2. Recommendation 2.1 ThattheCommitteenotesthecompletedandoutstandingactionsarisingfromprevious meetingsofthecommittee. ActionsarisingfromtheCommitteemeetingon9September2015 Item Topic Status ForActionby 6. NationalRailServicesinLondon ThatauthoritywasdelegatedtotheChair,in consultationwiththepartygroupleadmembersto agreethecommittee sreportonnationalrail servicesinlondon. 9. LightCommercialTraffic Duringthecourseofthediscussion,theChairasked DHLtoprovidetheCommitteewithfurtherdetails oftheregulatoryissuesarisingfromthe3.5tonne limitonvehiclesclassedaslightgoodvehicles. Thereportisin preparationfor publicationduring October2015. TheChairhaswrittento DHLtofollowupthe discussion. Scrutiny Manager DHL CityHall,TheQueen swalk,londonse12aa Enquiries: minicom: www.london.gov.uk Page 41

48 ActionsarisingfromtheCommitteemeetingon8July2015 Item Topic Status ForActionby 7. TaxiandPrivateHireServicesinLondon Duringthecourseofthediscussion,theCommittee requestedthefollowingfurtherinformationin writing: Anupdateonprogresswitheachofthe19 recommendationsinthecommittee sreport, Futureproof; Confirmationthatataxiandprivatehirestrategy wouldbeproducedbytheendoftheyear; FurtherdetailsofTfL sresearchonthemixof trafficinlondon,includingwhenitwouldbe completedandwhetheritcouldbesharedwith thecommittee; Detailsofplanstorecordallcomplaintsabout Uberinasingleplace; CorrespondencebetweenTfLandUberinrelation toafineof 10,000forpermittingavehicle withoutinsurance,andanexplanationofwhat happensiftherearefurtherbreaches; AresponsetotherequestthatTfLconsideran internalauditoftheconductofitsregulatory function;and Detailsofmeasurestodealwithtaxidemandin TwickenhamduringtheRugbyWorldCup. ActionsarisingfromtheCommitteemeetingon9June2015 IsabelDedring,Deputy MayorforTransport,has writtentothecommittee. Theletterisattachedas anappendixtothereport atagendaitem7. Item Topic Status ForActionby TfL 9. NationalRailServicesinLondon Duringthecourseofthediscussion,theCommittee requestedthefollowingfurtherinformationin writing: AnassurancefromNetworkRailaboutplansfor dealingwithpassengersintheeventofdisruption inhotweather,particularlyatlondonbridge station. TheChairwroteto NetworkRailtorequest theadditional information. NetworkRail, Page 42

49 3. LegalImplications 3.1 TheCommitteehasthepowertodowhatisrecommendedinthisreport 4. FinancialImplications 4.1 TherearenofinancialimplicationstotheGLAarisingfromthisreport. Listofappendicestothisreport: None LocalGovernment(AccesstoInformation)Act1985 ListofBackgroundPapers:None ContactOfficer: DaleLangford,PrincipalCommitteeManager Telephone: Page 43

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51 Agenda Item 6 Subject:MotorcycleSafety Reportto: TransportCommittee Reportof:ExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat Date:15October2015 Thisreportwillbeconsideredinpublic 1. Summary 1.1 ThisreportprovidesbackgroundinformationtotheTransportCommitteeinrelationtoitsmeeting withinvitedguestsonmotorcyclesafety. 2. Recommendation 2.1 ThattheCommitteenotesthereport,putsquestionsonmotorcyclesafetyinLondonto theinvitedguestsandnotesthediscussion. 2.2 ThattheCommitteedelegatesauthoritytotheChair,inconsultationwithpartyGroup LeadMembers,toagreeanyformaloutputfromthediscussion. 3. Background 3.1 TheCommitteeagreedatitsmeetingon9September2015toholdameetingwithexpertsand stakeholderstodiscussmotorcyclesafetyinlondon. 3.2 Initialanalysissuggeststhatmotorcyclistsaresignificantlymorelikelytobeinjuredinroadtraffic collisions:althoughpoweredtwo-wheelershavejustaonepercentofmodalshareonlondon s roads,theyaccountfor17percentofallcasualties.tflpublishedamotorcyclesafetyactionplan in2014containingarangeofmeasuresaimedatreducingcollisions IssuesforConsideration 4.1 Thefollowingguestshavebeeninvitedtoattendthemeeting: DavidDavies,ParliamentaryAdvisoryCouncilforTransportSafety(PACTS); BenPlowden,TransportforLondon; LillieMatson,TransportforLondon; 1 Theactionplanisavailableat: CityHall,TheQueen swalk,londonse12aa Enquiries: minicom: www.london.gov.uk Page 45

52 LeonManning,MotorcycleActionGroup;and KarenCole,MotorcycleIndustryAssociation. 5. LegalImplications 5.1 TheCommitteehasthepowertodowhatisrecommendedinthisreport. 6. FinancialImplications 6.1 Therearenofinancialimplicationsarisingfromthisreport. Listofappendicestothisreport: None LocalGovernment(AccesstoInformation)Act1985 ListofBackgroundPapers:None ContactOfficer: Telephone: RichardBerry,ScrutinyManager Page 46

53 Subject:TaxiandPrivateHireServices Reportto: TransportCommittee Reportof:ExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat Date:15October2015 Thisreportwillbeconsideredinpublic 1. Summary 1.1 ThisreportasksTransportCommitteeMemberstonotethefindingsofrecentmeetingswithprivate hireoperatorsandcorrespondencewiththedeputymayorfortransport. 2. Recommendation 2.1 ThattheCommitteenotes: (a) AletterfromtheDeputyMayorforTransport,followingupthediscussionatthe Committee smeetingon8july2015,includinganupdatefromtransportforlondon onprogressimplementingtherecommendationsofthecommittee sreport, FutureProof; (b) ThenoteofameetingofpartyGroupLeadMemberswithrepresentativesof UberLondonLimited;and (c) Agenda Item 7 ThenoteofameetingofpartyGroupLeadMemberswithrepresentativesof AddisonLeeLimited. 3. Background 3.1 TheCommitteepublishedareportonLondon staxiandprivatehireservices,futureproof,in December2014,settingoutrecommendationsfortheMayorandTransportforLondon(TfL)on howtoimproveservicesforpassengers Atitsmeetingon8July2015theCommitteemetwiththeDeputyMayorforTransport,Isabel Dedring,andLeonDanielsandGarrettEmmersonofTfL,todiscussprogresswithimplementationof therecommendations.thecommitteerequestedfurtherinformationfollowingthemeeting, includingcopiesofcorrespondencebetweentflanduberlondonlimitedinrelationtothe company sconvictionforpermittingavehiclewithoutinsurance. 1 Thereportisavailabletodownloadat: CityHall,TheQueen swalk,londonse12aa Enquiries: minicom: www.london.gov.uk Page 47

54 4. IssuesforConsideration 4.1 On30September2015,TransportforLondonlaunchedaconsultationonproposalsforamending privatehireregulation,arisingoutoftheprivatehireregulationsreview. 2 Alongsidethe consultation,tflpublishedaprovisionalstrategyforlondon staxiandprivatehireservices, fulfillingoneofthekeyrecommendationsofthecommittee s2014report. 3 Itisrecommendedthat MembersagreetodelegateauthoritytotheChair,inconsultationwithpartyGroupLeadmembers, torespondtotheconsultationonbehalfofthecommittee. 4.2 IsabelDedringwrotetotheCommitteeon15September2015,followinguptherequestfor informationmadeatthecommittee s8julymeeting.theletterincludedanupdatefromtflon progressimplementingthecommittee sfutureproofrecommendations.theletterisattachedat Appendix1.CorrespondencebetweenTfLandUberinrelationtothecompany sconvictionfor permittingavehiclewithoutinsurancewasalsoprovidedtothecommitteeinconfidence.in summary,thecorrespondenceconsistsof: AletterfromTfLtoUberon23December2014,notifyingthecompanythatTfLwas reviewingwhatactionwasrequiredinrespectofuber sprivatehirelicence. AreplyfromUberon5January2015,summarisingbusinesspracticesandsettingoutsteps takenbythecompanyinresponsetothisissue. AreplyfromTfLon3February2015,confirmingUber soperatorlicencewouldnotberevoked orsuspended. 4.3 On28July2015,partyGroupLeadMembersmetwithJoBertramandAndrewByrneofUber LondonLimited.AnoteofthismeetingisattachedatAppendix2.On14July2015,partyGroup LeadMembersmetwithDominickMoxon-Tritsch,MichaelGalvinandJohnYoungofAddisonLee Limited.AnoteofthismeetingisattachedtoAppendix3. 5. LegalImplications 5.1 TheCommitteehasthepowertodowhatisrecommendedinthisreport. 6. FinancialImplications 6.1 TherearenodirectfinancialimplicationstotheGLAarisingfromthisreport. Listofappendicestothisreport: Appendix1 LetterfromDeputyMayorforTransport Appendix2-NoteofmeetingwithUberLondonLimited Appendix3-NoteofmeetingwithAddisonLeeLimited 2 TfL sconsultationdocumentisavailablehere: 3 Thestrategyisavailablehere: Page 48

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69 Notes from Transport Committee meeting with Uber 28 July 2015 Present: Valerie Shawcross CBE AM (Chair); Caroline Pidgeon MBE AM; Richard Tracey AM Guests: Jo Bertram, General Manager, Uber London; Andrew Byrne, Uber London The meeting began with an introductory presentation from Uber explaining the functionality of the app, including booking processes and safety features. The attendees discussed the process for verifying that partners carry full commercial insurance, including automatic log-off from the Uber platform when insurance documents expire. The attendees discussed the safety features of the app including the use of the rating system to ensure that partner-drivers meet quality standards set by Uber. Uber explained that they also ran classes for partners on how to improve their ratings. Uber explained the process for using anonymised phone number data so that partner-drivers did not have personal contact details of passengers unless these were given to them by the rider. The anonymised number expires after thirty minutes. Uber told the meeting that driver flexibility was a key part of Uber s appeal to and that partnerdrivers were also reassured by being paid weekly and not having to worry about people not paying their fares. They said that this was why the company had experienced unprecedented growth in partner-driver numbers. (Uber told the Committee that they had seen an unprecedented growth with 18,000 partner-drivers, of whom around 4000 were on the road at any time) Market conditions Uber indicated that they were experiencing huge demand, especially in areas not traditionally served by the established licensed taxi and private hire market, such as outer London. The potential impact of the night tube on demand for services was also discussed. Uber also discussed the potential for developing services which would allow for further economies for passengers and reduce the number of vehicles on the road. Views on the proposed private hire cap Uber indicated that it did not agree with this proposal. They suggested that congestion should be tackled by reducing reliance on private cars. They suggested that a cap would have a negative impact on service levels for passengers in zone 3-6, while having only a limited effect on congestion in central London. Heathrow airport Uber explained the functionality of the app which prevented partner-drivers from accepting jobs except in the designated areas they are allowed to wait. They indicated that the cars may be visible in the app but cannot be booked by passengers. Uber indicated they are working closely with Heathrow to reduce the amount of Uber partners spend waiting in the vicinity and that they encouraged partners not to congregate there. Page 63

70 Out of licensing area The Committee asked for an explanation of how Uber prevents partner-drivers licensed in other cities operating in London. Uber explained that partners were assigned to specific licensing areas within the app that accorded with the location of their licence and could not receive jobs outside area and never in London. Every report Uber have ever received of partners working outside area were investigated and disciplinary action could be taken if needed, but drivers could also simply be using their car for private purposes inside London (or dropping off a booking accepted in their licensed area) Pre-booking Uber said that all its cars are pre-booked; the average waiting time is around 3 minutes in central London. Jo Bertram explained that an extended reservation service was not offered as Uber had the reliability to offer a car within minutes anyway. This also reduces dead time for partners between bookings. Surge pricing The attendees discussed the rationale for surge pricing (to keep more partner-driver on the road at busy periods) and the need to be more proactive about communicating surge prices clearly during major events like tube strikes. Payment to partners Action: Uber undertook to provide more details to the Committee about the requirements for driver payments to be made into UK bank account and indicated that full records of all journeys and payments are kept and can be made available. Uber explained the model of charging for Uber black taxi services through the app, calculated by entering the fare from the licensed taxi meter. Complaints procedure Uber explained its complaints handling procedure, saying that passengers can complain by leaving feedback in the app, by reply to their receipt, can or contact on Facebook and Twitter. Uber direct all complaints to so that they can look up the details of the trip more easily. They cover s 24/7 and if there is a serious incident, Uber will call the customer. All complaints are logged on the driver record and the driver will be immediately suspended if there is a serious incident. Uber indicates they work closely with the cab enforcement unit and the Metropolitan police as needed. A review committee looks into serious incidents to determine if a driver can be reactivated. Any partner-drivers permanently removed from the platform are notified to TfL. Action: Uber will provide the Committee with the number of complaints that they have received. Uber do maintain a landline but they divert this and was mainly used for TfL and police enquiries, prior to being publicly disclosed by TfL before the Transport Committee. Uber is a business that operates online and customers choose to book online and use online methods for Page 64

71 contact. When Uber provide in app methods of communication it also provides a clear audit trail. However, they would consider looking at phone-based options if there was clear customer demand for it. Uber indicated that the landline is currently diverted to voic as they were receiving high levels of abusive calls. Uber also indicated that they were not aware of any requirement to have a landline for bookings in the 1998 (Private Hire) Act. The company has been very clear about the fact that it is an app-based booking service. The Committee requested the following information in writing: Average length of time to respond to complaints Number of drivers suspended from the app and for what period Number of drivers referred to TfL for licence suspension. Action: Uber agreed to provide this information Relationship with TfL The attendees discussed the nature of Uber s relationship with TfL. Uber said that due to the scrutiny the company is under, they undergo more frequent checks than other operators. Uber also indicated that, as they had been unsuccessful in their repeated attempts to join established trade representative bodies, they had little alternative other than to engage in direct dialogue with TfL. Update on reports of hacked Uber accounts Uber has set up a dedicated team to investigate these claims. Reports of account takeovers are a result of data breaches from other major e-commerce and internet services, and people using the same passwords for multiple online accounts. Uber have set up a two-step verification process so that hackers are less able to conceal changes to customer s accounts. Every trip that was taken with a hacked account has been refunded. Driver working hours The attendees discussed the issue of long working hours potentially leading to dangerous driving. Uber explained that once a driver has been working for a certain amount of time, they will be logged out of the system, though they cannot tell whether a driver has done a previous shift with another operator prior to logging onto the Uber platform. Some councils are able to tell you whether a driver can only work with one operator and they keep record of who that operator is. From a driver s perspective the ability to work for multiple operators leads to greater choice. Private hire regulations review Page 65

72 Action: Uber to share a copy of their submission. Uber has recently become a topographical testing centre and have been described as the most professional testing centre by TfL. Uber is interested in making sure partner-drivers are as high quality as possible. They support English language training and called for a higher standard of topographical knowledge. They are also interested in looking at the introduction of training around safeguarding children and vulnerable adults. Uber s opinion is that the process for licensing and renewing licences takes too long. There are issues around DBS checks and the time it takes for these to come back, they would like to see a digitised DBS service. They would like to see the multi-operating environment preserved. Uber said that there should be a wider discussion around the private hire regulation review and the taxi regulation review because they do not think that either of these are particularly future proof. Any future regulatory framework should take into account GPS and mobile technology and consider a framework that ensures customers are safe, that vehicles are accessible and that there are fewer barriers of entry into the market for both private hire and licensed taxis. Accessibility of the Uber fleet. Uber are very interested in working with GLA and TfL to make their vehicles more accessible. The supply of wheelchair accessible private hire vehicles is very low but Uber would like to work with GLA and other relevant authorities to increase this. Because there is no legal requirement and because they are more expensive, licence holders do not buy them. Uber would like to look at a way to incentivise partner-drivers to buy more accessible vehicles. With the Uber app, as long as they have enough wheelchair accessible vehicles, it would be very easy to add a button to the app for customers to use if they require these vehicles. Pilots are currently running in US cities and in New York where there is a wheelchair accessible button for users to select if they need. Uber is very useful for those with hearing or visual disabilities. Uber now has a deaf partner-driver on the platform. Action: Uber to send the committee details of this New York pilot. Forthcoming challenges Dealing with the perception that Uber are breaking rules or are unlicensed is a main challenge. It would be helpful to be part of a private hire trade body, they would be able to be more transparent and work across organisations. Uber believes it is important to have discussions with other trade bodies to be able to voice issues and feedback. By setting up a cross-industry task force, different groups would be able to work together to look at issues such as accessibility and how to improve this for private hire companies. This will also help to resolve ongoing disputes. Uber says it is very popular with a huge number in the UK and this should be reflected in the regulations because it is a reflection of choice. Uber believes it provides a new and innovative option for consumers and partner-drivers. This technology has the ability to make the industry Page 66

73 more responsive and transparent than it has been in the past and any issues that do occur can be resolved because of the extra information recorded throughout the journey. In terms of future market changes, Uber predicts that there would be an increase in demand for pooled services. It believes the market will remain highly competitive with increases in the number of apps and a greater number of cross-uk operators, which represents a challenge for regulators with drivers operating outside their home jurisdiction. Uber predicts far lower usage of private cars in cities. They also indicated that congestion charging may need to be reviewed again as part of a wider effort to disincentivise low occupancy, private car use in cities. Page 67

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75 Minutes of taxi and private hire stakeholder meeting 14 July 2015 Session 1 Present: Caroline Pidgeon MBE AM (Chair), Valerie Shawcross CBE AM, Darren Johnson AM, Richard Tracey AM Guests: Dominick Moxon-Tritsch (Head of Public Affairs & Communications (Interim), Addison Lee Limited), Michael Galvin (Managing Director, Addison Lee) and John Young (Burson Marsteller). Caroline Pidgeon MBE AM introduced the Transport Committee panellists and asked the guests to identify their key concerns. Addison Lee set out their key concerns, namely: Public safety and the need to ensure adequate hire and reward insurance is in place across private hire fleets The conduct of licensed operators disregarding current legislation and of TfL in allowing this That Addison Lee had raised issues regarding uninsured drivers with TfL and these concerns had been ignored The apparent weakness of online documentation checking processes for Uber The need to support the current regulatory system The potential for tax avoidance by companies incorporated abroad and whether this complies with the fit and proper person requirements for operators. Current market conditions for private hire. Addison Lee indicated they are busier with business journeys, but that the consumer growth has flat lined or declined. In the industry more broadly, particularly among companies that rely upon owner-drivers, they believe that some companies have lost 40 to 60 per cent of their drivers. They suggested that reasons for this included: Drivers electing to work for Uber at peak times and other operators at off peak times Alleged ability to have payments from Uber paid into non-uk bank accounts (being investigated by HMRC) They noted that business requirements for service-level agreements and the facility to pre-book journeys meant that this market had stayed with more traditional operators. They suggested that operators who don t pay for overheads such as tax or fleet insurance can pass on savings to the consumer. This is driving down costs in the rest of the industry, which is impacting on driver earnings, meaning that across the industry more drivers are doing more journeys for less money. This creates problems for Addison Lee in terms of driver retention. This creates perverse incentives for owner-operators to cut corners on vehicle maintenance and creates a race to the bottom. They suggested this was anti-competitive. This is in contrast to other new entrants who had abided by the existing regulations. Page 69

76 The panel discussed the illusion of flexibility for drivers and the need for drivers to work longer hours to make money, particularly if the operator took an increasing cut of earnings. They noted that Uber s model was attracting drivers on a part-time and full-time basis, with lower barriers for entry, leading to additional pressure as the number of drivers was growing rapidly. Private hire regulations review. Addison Lee is supportive of this process, and the proposals, particularly: English language requirements Disability awareness training Tightening up the topographical testing centres where there is allegedly widespread abuse Potentially increasing the minimum standard for PH topographical tests (but at a much lower level than required for the Knowledge).The panel briefly discussed satnav and its potential usage, noting that drivers still needed to have some local knowledge. Addison Lee noted that they were pleased with the level of engagement and communication from TfL on this issue (particularly Peter Blake) The panel discussed the proposals for a private hire cap and the efficacy of the current licensing regime Addison Lee noted that TfL s regulation was gold standard when compared with other regulatory frameworks, notably Brussels, but that it needed to update regulations for the internet age. They believe that a private hire cap would be a crude measure as companies would use it to extract extra profit from holding a PHV licence. The panel discussed other licensing issues, including: Consideration of points on licences when recruiting drivers. Addison Lee confirmed that drivers with more than 6 points on their licence are not allowed to join and that they also do not accept anyone with convictions for drunk or dangerous driving. Country of issue: TfL has to accept European licences. Addison Lee is obliged to accept licences issued in the EU but conducts additional checks via a third party company which identifies anomalies but would not call for this to be an industry standard. They accept that the PHV workforce in London is diverse and this should be respected. Insurance Addison Lee is concerned about the absence of the question of fleet insurance. There should be no switch-on switch-off insurance as it allows more exceptions and would be harder to enforce. They believe all operators should have hire and reward insurance rather than this public safety issue being pushed down to drivers given the commercial pressures which they face from rocketing numbers of PHV driver licence numbers and a concomitant decline in earnings. The Transport Committee noted that they had raised this issue with TfL senior management directly and had received a response from Leon Daniels indicating there were three companies who operated a switch on/off type policy. Potential improvements from the insurance industry were discussed, including: Page 70

77 Linking up the congestion charging system with Motor Insurance Bureau(MIB) records in real-time although there a practicability issues here knowing that a minicab has insurance isn t enough. MIB would need to be able to provide live data about whether a valid hire and reward was in place Insurance companies disclosing type of insurance purchased not just insurance status The concerns of the MIB and insurance companies on people stopping payments on receipt of the documentation Both Addison Lee and the Licensed Private Hire Car Association (LPHCA) have made representations to the Department for Transport (DfT) on the Taxi Bill to require that all licensed operators have fleet insurance, as the problems were essentially due to a lack of this requirement Punitive action for uninsured drivers They indicated that as recently as two or three years ago, TfL were draconian in regulation. They had a totting up process with 12 points to lose a PHV licence. A single uninsured driver would be twelve points on the record. This system genuinely guaranteed public safety. They suggested that replacement with a proportionality-based approach to regulation shows that there is now differential treatment between operators. Addison Lee would like to see an onus on the operator to proactively provide insurance details rather than waiting for piecemeal and backward looking TfL compliance checks. Random sample testing of a large driver base doesn t provide across the board reassurance that all of an operator s vehicles are insured. Contact between Addison Lee and TFL The panel discussed regulatory conduct. Addison Lee confirmed that they only attend formal meetings and do not have bilateral relationships with individual senior TfL managers. They expressed hope that one of the outcomes of the Committee s Future Proof report would be an improved relationship between TfL and the private hire industry. They suggested that the relationship and direct contact between TfL and Uber is not appropriate. Complaints. TfL have a good and improving complaints procedure in every other area except for PHVs, and they rely on the customer to contact the company directly; the problem is not that this is TfL policy, but that Uber have no contact number to complain to. Addison Lee monitors complaints carefully, introducing a rate my journey and rate my driver function. Other companies may not have same attitude, but there should always be someone they can go to complain. They are happy to provide their statistics on complaints to TfL. Any licensed operator should own their problems and provide appropriate liaison. They are required to retain records for twelve months. Page 71

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79 Subject:LondonTravelWatchBusinessPlanand BudgetBid2016/17 Reportto: TransportCommittee Reportof:ExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat Date:15October2015 Thisreportwillbeconsideredinpublic 1. Summary 1.1 ThisreportpresentstheLondonTravelWatch 1 draftbudgetandbusinessplanfor2016/ Recommendations 2.1 ThattheCommitteeconsidersLondonTravelWatch sproposedbudgetandbusinessplan forthenextfinancialyearandrecommendsabudgetforlondontravelwatchfor 2016/ Background 3.1 LondonTravelWatch sbudgetformspartofthelondonassembly sbudget,andassuchitwillbe includedintheassembly sbudgetsubmissiontothemayor.thetransportcommitteeisaskedto considerandapprovetheproposedbudgetforlondontravelwatchfor2016/17whichwillform partoftheassembly soverallbudgetsubmissionforconsiderationbytheassembly sglaoversight CommitteeinNovember2015.AnycommentsfromtheCommitteewillbetakenintoaccount duringthepreparationofthebudgetsubmissiontothemayor. 4. IssuesforConsideration 4.1 TheLondonTravelWatchdraftBusinessPlanandBudgetBid2015/16isattachedatAnnexA.In 2015/16LondonTravelWatchreceived 1,056,400fromtheGLA.LondonTravelWatchisproposing abudgetfor2016/17thatrepresentsacashreductiononthecurrentyearof 21,100(2%)with mostofthereductionbeingachievedonchair,members andstaffcosts(pay).nocontributions areproposedfromlondontravelwatch sreservesin2016/17. Agenda Item 8 1 LondonTravelWatchistheoperatingnameoftheLondonTransportUsersCommittee. CityHall,TheQueen swalk,londonse12aa Enquiries: minicom: www.london.gov.uk Page 73

80 5. LegalImplications 5.1 Underparagraph6(1)ofSchedule18totheGLAAct1999(asamended),theAssemblymust providelondontravelwatchwithfundstopayofficers andmembers remunerationandother allowancesasthecommittee,withtheapprovaloftheassembly,sodetermine.theassemblymust alsoprovidesuchfundingasitdeterminesappropriatetolondontravelwatchtodefrayexpensesin connectionwithitsfunctions(para6(2),sch18,glaact).alltheassembly sfunctionsregarding LondonTravelWatcharedelegatedtotheTransportCommittee. 5.2 By1Februaryeachyear(orsuchotherdateastheTransportCommitteedetermines)London TravelWatchmustprovideaformal statementofexpectedexpenses relatingtotheexpensesthey expecttoincurinconnectionwithcarryingoutoftheirfunctionsinthefollowingfinancialyear(para 6(3),Sch18).TheTransportCommitteemustconsiderthatformalstatement,andapproveitwith orwithoutmodifications(para6(4),sch18).onceapproved(withorwithoutmodifications)itthen becomeslondontravelwatch sbudgetforthefollowingyear. 6. FinancialImplications 6.1 LondonTravelWatchisaseparatelegalentitywhichisfundedbytheLondonAssemblyin accordancewithschedule19oftheglaact1999(asamended).londontravelwatchfunding, therefore,formspartofthelondonassemblyandsecretariatbudgetandlondontravelwatch s 2016/17proposedbudgetwillneedtobecontainedwithintheAssemblyandSecretariat s2016/17 cashlimitedbudget. Listofappendicestothisreport: AnnexA LondonTravelWatchDraftBudgetandBusinessPlan2016/17 LocalGovernment(AccesstoInformation)Act1985 ListofBackgroundPapers:none ContactOfficer: MarkRoberts,ExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat Telephone: mark.roberts@london.gov.uk, Page 74

81 LONDON TRAVELWATCH Business Plan and Budget Bid London TravelWatch is the independent consumer body responsible under a series of statutes for representing the interests of all who use public transport in London. It is accountable to, and funded by, the London Assembly. It covers all modes of transport, and its work is underpinned by a series of statutory powers and duties. In particular, it must: consider and make recommendations relating to matters brought to its notice by users and transport providers or which it considers merit investigation respond to essential consultations on behalf of transport users undertake research and investigation into issues of concern, and act as an appeals body for consumers who have been unable to resolve their complaints with service providers. It delivers these statutory responsibilities through its casework and policy teams and the close synergy between these teams is an important feature of its work. It is, for example, crucially important for caseworkers to have easy access to expert knowledge to help resolve complex appeals. On the policy and investigation side, a wide range of evidence, including primary and secondary research, is used to inform the organisation s work, but important policy-related issues emerging from casework also provide a key input to London TravelWatch s work. We have been particularly successful in recent years, continuing to make a real difference for people travelling in and around London. We stood up for rail passengers affected by persistent delays and disruption, challenging the industry to improve and making the case for better compensation arrangements for commuters. We consulted Underground passengers to ensure their needs were properly taken into account when ticket offices were closed. We developed an online community to help give bus passengers a voice and continued to monitor the reliability of bus services, highlighting the worst performing routes and lobbying Transport for London (TfL) to address the underlying causes. Our report on how to improve public transport access to London s five major airports was well-received by both politicians and the industry and several of our recommendations are already being addressed. Page 75

82 The context for our future work The major challenge for London in the next 20 to 30 years continues to be meeting the needs of a rapidly expanding and changing city. The 2011 Census showed that there had been a much larger growth in population than forecast in the London Plan. This led to a review of population projections by the GLA that are much higher than previously assumed, up from 8.2 million in 2011 to 10 million by The growth in population and employment will result in a projected increase in overall travel to 30 million trips a day by 2031, up from 27 million. This predicted growth in population and demand for travel will need to be matched by increases in transport capacity. Enabling employment growth in central London remains very important as central London will remain the driver of London s economy. Currently 30% of London s jobs are in 2% of London s area and, though there are agglomeration benefits in having high numbers of workers in one central employment area, this requires a dense network of rail, tube and bus routes into the centre. Rising housing costs combined with changes to housing benefit entitlement mean that many people on low incomes who work in central London are having to move to areas of outer London and beyond for cheaper housing. High rail and tube fares can mean that many people have to rely on cheaper modes of travel such as buses despite the far longer journey times. Any reduction in bus service levels in outer London or in bus journey time reliability will impact disproportionately on low income groups. Works will continue to upgrade London s ageing infrastructure and new schemes such as Crossrail are being developed to expand capacity to try and keep up with growth in the number of passengers, and to improve connectivity further afield. We welcome the infrastructure improvements but they will be accompanied by years of major disruption for transport users, including for those who may not directly benefit from them. Increasing congestion on London s roads affects pedestrians, bus passengers, cyclists and motorists, and their respective needs must be carefully balanced. London TravelWatch will have a critical role to play in ensuring that consumer interests remain at the forefront of government thinking at both project planning and implementation stages, and then working to ensure they remain so. Policy makers, providers and operators need to remain flexible as, inevitably, changing circumstances can mean all concerned need to adapt and refocus. As a watchdog, it is essential that London TravelWatch is able to monitor progress and challenge operators to work together as effectively as possible, both on planned and unplanned disruption, to ensure that passenger interests are not compromised as complex projects are delivered across London. The industry showed what it could do during the 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games, working together to deal with emerging problems as well as forward planning, and we expect even more from them now when dealing with the huge strategic challenges ahead. General approach to this business plan will be another important year on many counts. There will be network changes arising from the letting of new rail franchises and other changes from the comprehensive spending review. There will also be changes following the 2016 Page 2 of 8 Page 76

83 Mayoral and London Assembly elections. We need to remain flexible in our plans in order to respond to these changes and this will limit our ability to take on new work. We will further develop the themes from the current year as we follow up on work already underway or arising from our recent research, particularly Improving public transport access to London s airports and Interchange matters. London TravelWatch is strongly committed to working collaboratively with the Transport Committee. We will continue to align work plans where practicable and to prioritise requests to provide evidence to the Committee s scrutinies and investigations. Where resources permit, we will play our part in following up on some of the key recommendations arising from its work by monitoring the progress made by operators, particularly TfL, in implementing them. We will work within the framework of our strategic priorities which were updated last year to reflect the new transport challenges facing London, especially the major issue of capacity constraints at a time of tight public spending control. Our prioritisation criteria will help focus our resources on areas where we can have the most impact. London TravelWatch will work in accordance with its mission and values - putting the consumer view, challenging the industry where appropriate and championing the interests of the travelling public but always ensuring that our work remains evidence-based and our decision making is independent. This business plan sets out the key areas of work the organisation will be undertaking in within the context of our strategic priorities. Our mission and values are set out in appendix 1. Our strategic priorities and corporate strategy are set out in appendix 2 and our budget bid for is attached as appendix 3. Strategic priorities Our work in will continue to be driven by the need to improve outcomes for transport users. On behalf of transport users we will work to ensure that: We support and advocate initiatives which make best use of scarce capacity on all London s transport networks, promoting infrastructure changes that will help do this. London has a transport system that is well-integrated and accessible to all, with convenient interchanges, easy-to-use ticketing and good customer service. All decisions about transport in London take account of transport users needs and priorities. The travelling public are well-informed by service providers, they get high quality and timely information about services available, fares and ticketing and any disruption to their journeys. Our work is delivered by an efficient and responsive organisation. Page 3 of 8 Page 77

84 Underpinning our work will be our belief that passengers should get the best value for money possible for the price they pay for their ticket; that services should keep pace with demand, running frequently and reliably at all reasonable times of the day and week; and that journeys should not just be safe but also feel safe. All transport users should have easy access to an effective complaints service from transport operators and providers, backed up by a robust appeals system when they are not satisfied with the response they receive. Objectives for How the organisation will address these issues, as well as other key work areas, is set out below within the context of our five strategic objectives. 1. Support and advocate initiatives which make best use of scarce capacity on all London s transport networks and promote infrastructure changes that will help to do this Promote suggestions we have made previously about how to increase overall capacity on the existing bus network by relatively small improvements which make best use of current assets. Assess the impact of TfL s bus priority measures. Assess the effectiveness of changes to the cycling infrastructure in improving safety for cyclists as well as the impact these have on other road users. Evaluate the impact on passengers of timetable changes from December 2016 onwards. Provide a passenger input to plans to improve Bank station in 2020 and to other upgrades and extensions to the Underground network. Promote the development of new rail, Underground and bus interchange stations where these would make better use of existing capacity. Promote the removal of gyratory road systems to improve the capacity and safety of the road network, and conduct a series of case studies to consider particular locations from the different modal perspectives. 2. London has a transport system that is well-integrated and accessible to all, with convenient interchanges, easy-to-use ticketing and good customer service Promote good practice at transport interchanges as set out in our Interchange Matters report using the results of mystery shopping carried out by both us and the public to identify best practice and highlight those that fall short of the standards transport users expect. Work to improve accessibility by encouraging transport decision makers, providers and operators to take further action - on the railway by doing more to Page 4 of 8 Page 78

85 mitigate the impact of excessive gaps between trains and platforms; on buses by pushing local authorities to adopt the more challenging target of making 95% of all bus stops accessible; and on pavements by highlighting the problems posed to blind and partially-sighted pedestrians by pavement obstructions. Assess the impact of changes to the way that London Underground, London Overground and National Rail stations are staffed and intervene where there is evidence that passengers needs are not being adequately met, particularly those of disabled or vulnerable travellers. Evaluate the impact on passengers of major station rebuilding programmes, particularly at London Bridge, Waterloo and Euston, and continue to speak up on their behalf to ensure that the changes best meet the needs of passengers and to help minimise the effect of disruption during construction. Encourage transport operators to continuously improve the service they give to passengers and monitor TfL s progress in addressing any issues arising from the London Assembly s Transport Committee s investigation into TfL s customer service standards. Follow up work done in regarding the needs of passengers at small stations and suggest how these could be better met. In partnership with Trust for London and London Councils, promote measures to mitigate the impact of the cost of travel on people in low income jobs living in outer London who have to travel long distances to work. Promote the improvement of surface access to London s airports, both in terms of infrastructure (rail, road, bus) and the terms and conditions that passengers are subject to (rail and bus ticketing, taxi and private hire fares and availability). 3. All decisions about transport in London take account of transport users needs and priorities Give bus passengers a voice by further developing our online bus community and by supporting up to three new bus user groups. Monitor closely the new rail franchises on the Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern and Essex Thameside routes to ensure the services they provide meet the needs of passengers as promised in the franchise bid, and provide input from the London passenger perspective to the Greater Anglia and SouthWest Trains franchises before they are tendered. Provide input to and monitor progress on direct award rail franchises to ensure services meet the needs of passengers as promised in the terms of the franchise award (Southeastern and First Great Western). Provide input to new rail concession competitions by TfL for London Overground (and potentially the Metro part of SouthWest Trains). Page 5 of 8 Page 79

86 Track the legislative and decision-making process for HS2, speaking out at appropriate points to ensure that London passenger interests are properly taken into account in relation to Euston and Old Oak Common stations. Work to ensure that the investment in Crossrail brings maximum benefit to passengers that stations are accessible and well-connected with local bus services, and that there is a direct link to Terminal 5 at Heathrow Airport. Promote better access by public transport to London s major airports and take opportunities that arise to improve access to healthcare and education services, particularly when new or reconfigured services or facilities are being planned, as well as to major new housing, enterprise or retail developments. Ensure that the needs of taxi and private hire passengers are considered in any future changes to taxi operation and licensing. Use our influence to ensure that Crossrail 2 is developed with passenger needs considered as a key element of the planning process. Use our Key priorities for transport users, developed for discussion with the candidates for the mayoralty, to guide our response to the new Mayor s Transport Strategy as well as our ongoing work. 4. The travelling public are well-informed by service providers, they get high quality and timely information about services available, fares and ticketing and any disruption to their journeys Provide a strong consumer voice on the multi-agency London-wide Travel Demand Management Board set up to coordinate passenger communications during planned disruption, and to learn the lessons from incidents of unplanned widespread disruption. Use our influence to try and accelerate the extension of the Oyster pay as you go and contactless smartcards to Gatwick, Luton and Stansted Airports and other stations within the London Railway area. Evaluate the impact on passengers of new ways of paying for travel like contactless cards, other forms of electronic ticketing and part-time season tickets. Identify and work to resolve any issues arising from the extension of different National Rail ITSO or other smartcards onto the London transport network. Encourage transport operators to be more transparent with passengers about the circumstances in which penalty fares are levied and to raise awareness of the importance of having a valid ticket or touching in with Oyster pay as you go, contactless smartcards or other electronic payment means before travelling. Page 6 of 8 Page 80

87 Negotiate to ensure that new ticket machines are designed to be user-friendly and encourage operators across the industry to adopt consistent design principles so that passengers develop greater confidence in using these. Promote the simplification of ticketing arrangements in London to enable easy understanding of these by passengers, wherever they are travelling to or from. 5. An efficient and responsive organisation Communications We will focus our communications work on influencing key debates and targeting our resources on the most significant audiences. We will prioritise continuing our regular dialogue with key stakeholders and decision-makers to ensure that the transport user voice in London is heard when decisions are made. We will continue to highlight the impact that our work achieves. We will further develop our website and social media presence to help promote our work more widely but at minimal cost. For example, we have established our interchange matters blog, an interactive forum which will not only allow us to share good practice information, but will also enable the public to help us by surveying their local interchanges and feeding the results back to us. Board We will maintain and underpin the strategic role of the Board through our streamlined committee structures and high quality briefing papers. The terms of appointment of our current Chair and Board all expire at the end of September and December 2016 respectively. We will plan a comprehensive induction programme for the newly-appointed Chair and Members at the beginning of their terms of appointment. Staffing Staff remain our key resource and we aim to be an excellent employer. The award of the Investors in People accreditation at silver status provided external confirmation that our investment in staff development is well-aligned with our business objectives and we aim to retain this in We will continue to pay the London Living Wage, participate in the Cycle to Work Scheme and help to support people into employment by taking on at least one apprentice or trainee. We will continue to ensure we get best value in all that we do by maintaining our shared services agreement with the London Pensions Fund Authority for our senior finance work. We will continue to be alert to any other such opportunities where we are sure that there are real cost savings to be made. Our permanent staffing establishment is now full time equivalent posts. The current staff structure is attached as appendix 4. Page 7 of 8 Page 81

88 Information technology As we have reduced the size of our staffing establishment over recent years, making best use of technology has become even more important in ensuring we are as productive as possible. In the past two years we have upgraded our website and our CRM casework management system and in the year ahead we plan to replace our desk top computers. Partnerships and additional resources Partnership working during 2015/16 led to match funding from Trust for London and London Councils being made towards the cost of our transport affordability work. We will continue to collaborate with Transport Focus where appropriate and in the year ahead we will seek ways of making our overall resources go further by working in partnership with other stakeholders. Premises Our move in late 2014 to share premises with the London Fire Brigade at their Union Street headquarters has provided us with efficient and good value offices which are closer to almost all of the stakeholders with whom we regularly meet. It is also helpful to our work that other London bodies have moved in (London Pensions Fund Authority, London Waste and Recycling Board, London Ambulance Service and the Old Oak and Park Royal Development Corporation). Risks London TravelWatch has a comprehensive risk policy and business continuity plan and regularly updates its procedures according to changing circumstances. Risks are reviewed regularly by the staff team and the Governance Committee. We will continue to refer to the organisation s published prioritisation criteria before committing time and resources to new projects to avoid the risk of spreading resources too thinly in response to the many and rising calls on time. Reserves For a small organisation entirely dependent on an annual grant, maintaining an adequate level of reserves is essential to ensure that core operating activities can continue during periods of activity involving exceptional levels of unplanned expenditure. London TravelWatch continues to review its reserves policy annually. JC/ Page 8 of 8 Page 82

89 Appendix 1 London TravelWatch Mission and Values Mission London TravelWatch is the body established by Parliament to be the official voice of transport users in greater London. It has a statutory role in the appeals and consultations process, and in putting the transport user view on transport issues, to improve the experience of travelling in and around the capital. Values London TravelWatch aims to be: Independent we are firmly on the side of the consumer and will not bow to outside pressure. Authoritative our work will be evidence-based, rigorous and respected. Open we will share information, and accept new ideas. Collaborative we will work with stakeholders. Inclusive we will represent all transport users in our area. Vision That London TravelWatch is the champion of the travelling public in London, successfully influencing decision-making about travel in our area. Page 83

90 Appendix 2 Strategic priorities Our work in will continue to be driven by the need to improve outcomes for transport users. On behalf of transport users we will work to ensure that: We support and advocate initiatives which make best use of scarce capacity on all London s transport networks, promoting infrastructure changes that will help do this. London has a transport system that is well-integrated and accessible to all, with convenient interchanges, easy-to-use ticketing and good customer service. All decisions about transport in London take account of transport users needs and priorities. The travelling public are well-informed by service providers, they get high quality and timely information about services available, fares and ticketing and any disruption to their journeys. Our work is delivered by an efficient and responsive organisation. Underpinning our work will be our belief that passengers should get the best value for money possible for the price they pay for their ticket; that services should keep pace with demand, running frequently and reliably at all reasonable times of the day and week; and that journeys should not just be safe but also feel safe. All transport users should have easy access to an effective complaints service from transport operators and providers, backed up by a robust appeals system when they are not satisfied with the response they receive. Corporate strategy The strategic priorities that underpin our work are: Maintaining an efficient system for handling appeals casework and for responding to consultations. Developing an independent evidence base of the views and needs of current and future transport users in London, especially those facing barriers to travel. Maintaining awareness of current transport service and future policy issues in our area. Becoming increasingly influential advocates on behalf of the travelling public to policy makers, regulators and operators. Building effective partnerships with stakeholders where it is in the interests of travellers to do so. Ensuring transport users feel their concerns are represented. Further developing as an efficient and responsive organisation. Page 84

91 Appendix 3 London TravelWatch Budget Submission 2016/17 k 2016/17 Corporate Plan 16/ /16 Budget 1,056.4 Budget requirement pre growth and savings (below) 1, Unavoidable growth: Accommodation costs: 1.3 Chair, Members' & Staff costs-pay: 0.0 Members' costs- non-pay 0.0 Other Staff related costs-non-pay 0.2 Supplies & Services 0.0 Depreciation & Asset Replacement 2.6 Total unavoidable growth 4.1 Projected Savings: Accommodation costs 0.0 Chair, Members' & Staff costs-pay 19.3 Members' costs- non-pay 0.0 Other Staff related costs-non-pay 0.0 Supplies & Services 5.9 Depreciation & Asset Replacement 0.0 Total savings 25.2 Application of reserves 0.0 Budget Requirement-after growth and savings 1,035.3 Guideline target 1,035.3 Excess over guideline 0.0 NB Growth and savings in the same headings have been offset above. Page 85

92 Appendix 4 Structure of London TravelWatch 30 September 2015 Chair and 6 Board members Chief Executive Safety & Policy Advisor * Page 86 Casework Manager Executive Assistant ** Corporate Support Manager Communications Officer HR Advisor * Director Policy & Investigation Policy Officers 3.8 fte Caseworkers 2.6 fte Finance Officer* Casework Support Officer Corporate Support Assistant Business Support Apprentice * Staffing establishment is full time equivalent employees. Chart code: * Part-time employee ** Job share

93 Agenda Item 9 Subject:TransportCommitteeWorkProgramme Reportto: TransportCommittee Reportof:ExecutiveDirectorofSecretariat Thisreportwillbeconsideredinpublic Date:15October Summary 1.1 ThisreportprovidesdetailsofplannedorongoingscrutinyworkbytheTransportCommitteeand thescheduleofcommitteemeetingsforthe2015/16assemblyyear. 2. Recommendations 2.1 ThattheCommitteeagreesitsworkprogrammefor2015/16,includingtherevised scheduleofprospectivetopicsforforthcomingmeetingssetoutatparagraph ThattheCommitteenotesthenoteofameetingwithrepresentativesofCentrefor LondonaspartofitsinvestigationintoNationalRailservices. 3. Background 3.1 TheCommitteereceivesareportmonitoringtheprogressofitsworkprogrammeateachmeeting. 4. IssuesforConsideration 4.1 TheCommitteehasagreedanumberofprioritiesfortheCommittee sworkprogrammein2015/16. ThefollowingisalistoftopicsthattheCommitteewillaimtoexplore,includingnewtopicsand follow-uptopreviouswork: Railservices; Commercialtraffic; Weekendandnight-timetravel; Motorcyclesafety; Accessibility; Coaches; Cycling; Crossrail; Redroutes;and CityHall,TheQueen swalk,londonse12aa Enquiries: minicom: www.london.gov.uk Page 87

94 Taxiandprivatehireservices. Theexactscopeandtimingsforworkonanyoftheseotherpossibletopicswillbedeterminedindue courseandmoredetailedworkprogrammereportssubmittedtofuturemeetings.thecommittee seekstomaintainflexibilityinitsworkprogrammetotakeaccountofanyrelevantdevelopments whenschedulingitsworkandhasarollingworkprogrammesoworkonanytopicsmaycontinue beyondeachassemblyyear. Motorcyclesafety 4.2 TheCommitteeisusingthismeetingforadiscussionofmotorcyclesafety.Furtherdetailisprovided underagendaitem6. Railservices 4.3 TheCommitteeiscurrentlyinvestigatingNationalRailservices,focusingonthecasefordevolution tolondon.adraftfinalreportformtheinvestigationisbeingconsideredunderdelegatedauthority bythechairandpartygroupleadmembers,andwillbeconsideredbythefullcommitteeatitsnext meeting. 4.4 InAugust,partyGroupLeadMembersmetwithrepresentativesoftheCentreforLondonand partnerorganisations,todiscussthedevolutionofrailservicesinlondon.anoteofthismeetingis attachedatappendix1. Taxiandprivatehireservices 4.5 TheCommittee sreportintotaxiandprivatehireserviceswaspublishedindecember2014. Follow-upworkonthistopichasbeenundertaken,includingattheCommittee smeetinginjuly 2015withTransportforLondonandtheDeputyMayorforTransport.InSeptember,Transportfor London(TfL)publishedaconsultationonitsPrivateHireRegulationsReview,whichtheCommittee hasagreedtodiscusswithtflatitsmeetingon10november.afurtherupdateonthisworkis consideredunderagendaitem7. HeathrowAirportsurfaceaccess 4.6 TheAirportsCommissionhaspublisheditsfinalreport,recommendingtotheGovernmentthatthe proposedthirdrunwayatheathrowairportbetakenforward.thelondonassemblyusedits plenarysessioninseptembertodiscussthereportwiththecommission schair,sirhowarddavies. TheTransportCommitteehasagreedtouseitsmeetingon10Novembertodiscussthepotential implicationsforsurfacetransportaccesstoheathrowwithrepresentativesfromtransportfor London. Commercialtraffic 4.7 TheCommitteeiscurrentlyinvestigatinglightcommercialtrafficinLondon,anddiscussedthistopic atitsmeetinginseptember.adiscussionpaperbasedonthefindingsoftheinvestigationisbeing preparedandwillbeconsideredatafuturemeeting. Cyclingprogrammes 4.8 TheCommitteehasmaintainedregularmonitoringofprogresswiththeMayorandTfL seffortsto increasecyclinginlondon,suchasthecyclesuperhighways,quietwaysandbetterjunctions.itis anticipatedthatthecommittee smeetinginjanuary2016willbeusedforanupdateontheseand otherprogrammesfromthemayor sofficeandtfl. Page 88

95 ResponsestorecentTransportCommitteework 4.9 ThetablebelowprovidesdetailsofanyresponsesduefromtheMayor,TfLand/orothersto Committeework. TransportCommitteework Detailsofresponsesdue(ifappropriate) Nooutstandingresponses. 2015/16scheduleofmeetings 4.10 Thescheduleofall2015/16TransportCommitteemeetingsissetoutbelowwithdetailsofthemain prospectivetopicsidentifiedtodate. Tuesday10November2015 HeathrowAirport/Privatehireservices; Thursday10December2015 CommissionerofTransport; Wednesday13January2016 Cyclingprogrammes; Tuesday9February2016(topictobeagreed);and Wednesday9March2016(topictobeagreed). 5. LegalImplications 5.1 TheCommitteehasthepowertodowhatisrecommendedinthisreport. 6. FinancialImplications 6.1 Therearenofinancialimplicationsarisingfromthisreport. Listofappendicestothisreport: Appendix1-NoteofNationalRailservicesmeetingwithCentreforLondon. LocalGovernment(AccesstoInformation)Act1985 ListofBackgroundPapers:None ContactOfficer: RichardBerry,ScrutinyManager Telephone: Page 89

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97 TRANSPORT COMMITTEE RAIL DEVOLUTION INVESTIGATION Meeting with Centre for London Time: 10am, Tuesday 25th August Attendees: Valerie Shawcross CBE AM, Chair, Transport Committee Caroline Pidgeon MBE AM, Deputy Chair, Transport Committee Richard Brown, Research Director at Centre for London Jonathan Roberts, independent transport consultant Richard Ainsley, Atkins Brell Wilson, Centre for London (CfL) Richard Berry, Scrutiny Manager, Transport Committee CENTRE FOR LONDON PROJECT Centre for London s project on rail devolution is entitled Turning South London Orange: A plan for reforming suburban rail. It is examining with the metro-style services available in the north and east of London could also be brought to south London. The co-chairs of the steering group are Steve Norris and Andrew Adonis. The project is sponsored by Thales, the Canary Wharf Group and several south London boroughs. The expected completion date is November The CfL project has three objectives: Cost-benefit analysis of previous investment in the London Overground network. Developing costed proposals for bringing up existing south London services to Overground standards. Developing a ten-year roadmap for reforming the rail network in south London. OVERGROUND PERFORMANCE TfL has improved performance of the Silverlink franchise, since it was devolved and transformed into the London Overground. Customer satisfaction and usage have increased significantly since The improvement has been greater than that seen across the network generally. Usage of the London Overground has mainly increased on the orbital routes, where passengers stay within the same fare zone. On the radial route between Watford and Euston, usage has been stable. Page 91

98 MODELLING The project is focusing on the suburban routes operated currently by Southern (on the Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern franchise). These routes were chosen above other south London franchises because a) TfL already has live proposals for the South Eastern franchise, and b) issues on the South Western franchise will be partially addressed by Crossrail 2. The modelling work for the project is considering: How close these routes can get to metro standards seen on the Overground frequency, capacity. What the transport benefits of this would be accessibility, travel times. What the development benefits of this would be residential and commercial development. ENGAGEMENT WITH LOCAL AUTHORITIES CfL has engaged with south London boroughs and out-of-london county councils during the project. Kent and Surrey are happy to rail services to be devolved, provided this has a purpose of improving services. They stress the importance of being equal partners with TfL. South London boroughs such as Lambeth, Lewisham and Southwark are positive about devolution. They would like to see train stations and surrounding areas better utilised. London Councils has concerns about Freedom Pass finances after devolution. Local authorities argue that their areas should not to be treated just as corridors into central London orbital transport should be prioritised. For instance, improving connectivity in Lewisham is important to deliver objectives of the New Cross Opportunity Area. STRATEGIC TRANSPORT ISSUES There is high population growth in London, in different locations, requiring improved connectivity. Mapping of public transport accessibility shows that south London has poor connectivity compared to other parts of the city. The rail network is under-utilised in south London, and there is suppressed demand. For instance, stations such as Streatham have large catchment areas and relatively few passengers. A huge number of people are getting the bus to Brixton for the tube and bypassing National Rail services. South Wimbledon tube station has more passengers than the nine Thameslink stations on the Wimbledon loop combined. Major risk areas for the network include shortcomings in interchanges, train loading and unloading times constraining increases in frequency, and the need for bigger depots. Making improvements to the network relies on completing several upgrades at once: trains, signalling, etc. No intervention on its own will deliver. Routes on the Southern network are currently constrained to 24 trains per hour, regardless of who manages them. Page 92

99 DEVELOPMENT POTENTIAL CfL are considering the development potential around 52 south London stations postdevolution. Across the catchment areas for these stations, around 33,000 dwellings are already planned (two-thirds of these have planning permission). CfL will therefore be investigating how devolution could deliver development in addition to this baseline. There are risks of linking devolution to residential development this implies that there will be high numbers of additional transport users in the area, with existing users not seeing the benefits of capacity increases. Development creates value that could be used to pay for rail upgrades. London may need to fund its own infrastructure improvements. Devolution is an opportunity for train operating companies, because it could help to increase their revenue by increasing the total size of the passenger market. CfL will explore the changing role of outer London town centres in relation to changes in the rail network. Page 93

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101 TURNING Page 95 SOUTH LONDON ORANGE Centre for London, Summer 2015

102 Page 96 - Costs and benefits of TfL s investment in the Overground network - Scale of future investment needs on south London rail services and sources of money - Practical barriers to delivering an Overgroundstyle service on south London rail services - Flaws in TfL s previous devolution proposals - Political support/opposition to further devolution

103 Page 97

104 Page 98

105 Services covered Victoria London Bridge Catford Bridge Page 99 Beckenham Jnct Epsom East Croydon Epsom Downs

106 Three Stages of Modelling Research Thales Q: Metrics: Page 100 Jonathan Roberts Q: Metrics: Atkins Q: Metrics

107 The politics of Turning South London Orange Page 101 It needs to be done for a purpose, and that purpose being benefitting our residents as well as London s.

108 Rail Strategic Issues London s really big issues Mismatch Rail key to maintaining momentum South London will struggle What can conventional franchising do? Soft solutions vital What can Overground investment achieve and how? Page 102

109 Network Analysis Managing foreseen volume analysis of foreseen Page 103 needs, gaps What s already in investment pipeline scale of additional interventions required Scope for rail/overground service specification, PTAL Project choices and risks Timescales, complexity Affordability, value for money - Costs, benefits

110 Managing foreseen volume Page 104

111 What s already in investment pipeline Page 105

112 Can Rail/Overground support new homes Page 106 / jobs across South London?

113 Page 107 Current PTAL in South London

114 Project choices and risks Page 108

115 Affordability and value for money Page 109

116 Page 110

117 Page 111

118 Page 112

119 1km catchment = max benefit of transport upgrades SHLAA sites provide basis of baseline scenario Constraints mapped Page 113

120 Page 114 Station catchments with 300+ allocated units, 1,710 1,497 1,