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1 -' SPREME CORT OF THE STATE OF CALFORNA ''HE l'eople OF THE STATE OF CALFORNA Plaintiff-Respondent vs. KEVN COOPER ) ) ) ) ) CR ) ) Spreme Cort Y f Yl'l Defendant-Appellant ) APPEAL FROM THE SPEROR CORT OF SAN DEGO CONTY HONORABLE DAVD C. MERRAM JDGE PRESDNG REPORTER'S TRANSCRPT ON APPEAL FRDAY SEPTEMBER APPEARANCES: For Plaintiff-Respondent: For Defendant-Appellant: JOHN K. VAN DE KAM? State Attoney General 0 West RAR Street Site 00 San Diego California 0 N PROPRA PERSONA -' Ll -' i L :; COP Y J - - NOEM LCCHES C.S.R. Official Reporter C-


3 '::;'--'! ONTARO CALFORNA; =R:AY SEPTEMBER ; : A.M (The following proceedings were held in chambers: ) Mr. Cooper wold yo be seated on the coch. At the reqest 0= defense consel we are meeting in l._ chambers ot of the presence of the pblic cortroom. The 0 record shold reflect that de=endant is present with his consel the District httorney's Office is represented by Mr. Kochis...r-'-'... Do yo wish to be heard Consel? MR. NEGS: Yes Yor Honor. wold object aain to the presence of the caeras in the cortroom. To my knoledge nothing newsworthy is going to happen today in the proceedings and believe that the contined presence of the caeras merely generates more pblicity which makes it r.ore nlikely that!>r. Cooper is lj : o 0 ever goingtoget a fair trial in this particlar -- in this particlar area. The last time he came to cort was Agst. On Agst the th or someling like that there were still letters to the editor bein generated in The Sn Telegram complaining abot the fact that he was coming to cort shaved and wearing civilian clothes. So jst the mere fact of his r-

4 .'..: >' >. pictre being in the paper seems to generate pblicity and it's not the kind of pblicity which seems to die down. t contines on and on and on and on. And in a sitation like this again we are where there is nothing going to happen except s walking into cort that generates the kind of pblicity which makes it think even more difficlt to get a fair trial becase there's no content that can be reported on so all they can do is try and rehash things that have already happened before and make it more sensational. 0! con't see that -- we've already -- they already have sfficient photog!:aphs of Mr. Cooper now that they can pt in Le paper. t's not like they're being deprived of any opportll'li ty to do that. The news people that r have talked to -- called me and asked me 't. hat' s goin:;; to happen today -- have indicated that they didn't see anything newswo!:thy either and it was merely a pictre-taking opportnity. don't think or cort shold be jst a pictre- taking opportnity and so wold object to their presence. 0!-!r. Kochis r. Kottmeier do either of yo wish to be heard? t-!r. KOTTHEER: o Yor Honor. Or position is basically as before that we're not representing the press or the media and we'll let it go at that. Okay. The defense motion will be denied The cort has previosly granted permission to KABC to be the 'n o o :J

5 --«pooling camera to The Daily Report and to The Press Enterprise to be the still cameras. Anything else yo wish to address at this time?. NEGS: Yes. Before we go into cort 'd again reqest that the cort order that r-lr. Cooper have his shackles i removed so he doesn't have them corning in to the cortroom e doesn't have to hobble in. 0 0 ill There wasn't any troble last time. That be the cort's order.. NEGS: 'm going to be makin a motion to contine the preliminary hearing date bt b whene\'er we do enever we have it either the date it's set or when it's contined to wold be reqesting that the proceedings be held in San Bernardino. The reason for that is on a one-shot every three eeks basis don't think it s going to be any great hardship for!-r. Cooper to corne ot here. Bt for this morning he as held in the holding cell at hso from approximately qarter of :00 THE DEFENDANT: Qarter after :00. :r-:r. NEGS: qarter after :00...-ith handcffs shackles on in a cell there with his moveent restricted. That sees to be if he's going to have to be doing that day after day after day after day it wold seem to be sort 0 a earing-down process -- 'm going to address thatisse. 'm _--' n ;-- a f f a a f /

6 t.. going to try and get some statements from consel as to estimates of the length of the preliminary hearing. 've had some discssions with Jdge Chapan and he's been very gracios in his offer and will consider that for the preliminary hearing and at the appropriate time we'll make the rling or the determination on that. Bt 'm not -- haven't decided anything on it yt. MR. NEGS: Okay. Bt will. t will be helpfl to know 0 how long the prelim might be in terms of nmbers of witnesses and... ;hat have yo. f the prelir:;. is expected to be two days long it will affect :i.y my decision as opposed to whether it's 0 for weeks long. cort now. MR. KOCHS: can answer that qestion for the wold estimate approxi::lately 0 prosection witnesses and wold estimate inclding cross-examination in the neighborhood of six to eight cort days. Okay. MR. NEGS: And there may be -- that :i.ay may be optimistip. think it will be longer than that. n o Okay. Technically we're on today for the prosection motion to qash the sbpoena d.t. MR. NEGS: No. think we're on for compliance o with that motion. tiell okay. /'--'

7 :; HR. NEGS: Okay. Nhatever. Anyway it's still that discssion. have received a package from KCOP television a pacage from KTLA and a letter reqest from Metromedia ho- ever that is Channel gess. Those presme are p=sant o yor sbpoenas. m. NEGS: Right. also have received they delvered to me -- don't know why bt they did -- a tape 0 fro= Channel a tape from Channel and also have some otr.e= writen maerial from Channel and ChannelS believe. \';ell yo're going to be prepared sp?se to address any problems of sbpoena d.t.'s on paries other than the District Attorney; is that right??{r. NEGS: Right. wold like to make my -- my basic position is that the -- want to find ot whether or no he sbpoenas have been answered. There shold be additional records and -- like to go throgh and check on the 0 record to make sre what has been received and what hasn't been. Okay. MR. NEGS: And to set an OSC for that stff which has't been or which haven't been contacted on. All right. - n e j a o Anything else here? Let's go ot front and have or

8 0 0 hearing. (The following proceedings were held in open cort: ) Horning ladies and gentlemen Consel. This is the time and place set for a frther proceeding in the case of People of the State of California verss Kevin Cooper Case No. and also in Case No. 0 n or last hearing on Agst the th believe it was we had some discssions regarding the -- amotion to qash certain sbpoenas d.t.'s from defese to the prosection And that hearing was contined over to this date either for frther discssion of the mattr has been had. or to show sbow what compliance }ffi. NEGS: can indicate to the cort that with respect to the for items in the aended sbpoena that with respect to tem all items except the tapes that tbat were reqested have been received. Mr. Kochis and have agreed that the tapes will be held by the sheriff's office ntil sch time as we can agree on what part of those tapes will be needej neede to be recorded for trial. f we cannot agree then we will be coming back into cort at some ftre time bt minly -n. a that the tapes will be preserved ntil we can work that ot. Okay. MR. KOCHS: That's correct Yor Honor. time Okay. So that is not at isse at this. a o J

9 ffi. GS: With regard to the second thing believe 've received all logs and records at reqested and ny nderstanding is that no tape recordings exist of the phone calls. R. ROCnS: That's correct. Z.:R. r:gv: The -- \d th respect to tern No. one itere has been delivered. Bill Arthr the person who is most ini.-nately invol vee in that particlar aspect of the sheriff's investigaion is ot of the -- is ot of the area 0 at the present time. 0 we have agreed that there will jst be a co!'ltinal dty on the part of the prosection to deliver any sc!: -- any sch items shold they trn p. A:ld d th respect to tem No. everything has been -- has been trned over to me to my knowledge. TEE COCRT: Okay. So we'll take that matter off calendar nless it's renewed by yo -- by the defense. 'm told we have present -- Well Hr. Negs yo've issed nderstand _or 0 had served certain other sbpoena dces tec one on the Attorney General. nderstand! r. Hanoian -- y. HANOAN: Yes Yor HO:lor Depaty Attorney General Hanoian and 'm representing the Department of Corrections personnel Oscar Pena and Rick injares. Did yo wish to be heard in front of the cort? n -'. a

10 .. '(:... t i >. i HR. HANOAN: Yes do Yor Honor. wold move to qash the sbpoenas on the basis that they lack specificity ad they're -- the items that are asked for are irrelevant to the charge of escape at least as to the records that have with me from }!r. injares and Mr. Pena. Okay. Have yo had any discssions with!-r. Negs on this? }R. HANOAN: We haven't had an opportnity to speak Yor Honor. was p in El Monte yesterday afternoon reviewil'ls reviewir 0 the records wi th Z!r.!-:injares and this is the first time that 've had a chance to see r. Negs at all. Okay. thi probably before we lanch / into it detailed evalation of yor motion that we'll give yo an opporti ty to speak informally with }!r. Negs this morning.!-ffi. HANO: Thank yo Yor Honor. HE CORT: Dring a recess and perhaps yo can work ot some matters or at least zero down as to where the specific conflicts are as to what he wants and what yo want to give and don't want to give.. o o KR. HANOAN: Okay. Thank yo Yor Honor. Okay? Fine. - Mr. Negs also yo have issed certain sbpoena dces tecms to a nmber of TV stations. HR. NEGS: Correct. have received from the cort a sealed

11 .-..;.. -=-: package from KCOP and a conication from Channel indicating that they had jst been served on the th and ween't pepared to respond to it as of this date. They indicated they had some co!n.'lnication with yo. s that correct? MR. NEGS: Tha t 's correct. And basi cally told them -- the' indicated that they wold be able to get t..e materials reqested in by next week early in the next week i. l. _ l i /-----' and indicated as long as the materials were in by that point 0 in time had no objection to that kind of delay. Okay. There's also a package sealed package from ChannelS KTLA. Have yo had any cornm'jnication from thera.? MR. NEGS: have. believe received a -- those believe are the docents which reqested from Channel S. received a copy of what believe are the same docmts myself and also received a copy of a tape -hich believe is the -- which is the item reqested. Okay. 0 Are there any representatives from any of those TV stations present that wish to be heard? MR. HENDEZ: Yor Honor my name is Robert!endez. 'm with NBC.!-!r.!.lendez yo may come forward. Do yo wish to be heard? MR. MEDEZ: \ell Yor Honor 'm simply delivering on 0'--' ': ': J t:

12 . 0 the video tapes that we've been asked to provide. We are still in the process of gathering some of the other stories. The video tape 'm delivering today incldes all the stories p to Jne of -- Jne th of this year and it will take s approximately another week to prepare the remainder of the other stories. Okay. Yo haven't received any indication!-!r. Negs of t L-- refsal to comply with yor sbpoenas have yo? 0!. KEGS: ':'he only persons that haven't heard from is Channel. Okay. K.. NEGS: And don't know if anybody is here 0 from Channel or not. ':'HE CORT: Well there wold appear to be at this time no one appearing on those sbpoenas moving to qash or to take any le;al action regarding that. }ffi. NDEZ: Yor Honor again we wold state on the record that we don't have any ottakes. \ie were sbpoenaed to provide ottakes. We went throgh or records and BC does not have any ottakes. So we're providing everything that we have. 'n. J n addition we were asked to provide records of the adience ratings for the days that the stories appeared and 'm delivering those now. Attached are declarations fro or cstodian of records. :J..-

13 Finally Yor Honor r'= no prepared to do it at tis time bt we wold like to at sone late date file a reqest to be reimbrsec for costs. e incree approximately old imagine after everything is done it's going to be in the neighborhood of abot for o S00 to make copies of the tapes and e'd like to be reir.rsec for those costs. TEE CORT: The cort ll ear that reqest when it' foall:y presented to t!e cort. '!'ha:k yo!.!. Mendez. Than yo for coming. 0.fy other matters as rearc.s to the -- as to those sbpoenas?!>!r. NEGS: have hac no -- no contact whatsoever ith CBS who was served with a sbpoena. Well wole sggest perhaps Consel at this time that we poceed no =rter on those. f yo believe that there's any of yor issed sbpoenas yo can bring that to the cot's ftre time giving notice to. NEGS: Fine.... a. parties. attention at a.... lj. o 0 All right? MR. NEGS: lso have sbpoenaed Yor Honor some othe docments which r'm not sre 'hether they have been received by the cort or not. shold state for the record - that did receive sbpoenas of docents from the Chino Fire Deparent. did receive those myself and am prepared l j to give over copies to the prosection.

14 also sbpoenaed docments =rom Lorna Linda Hospital and =rom Kni==in Alance Sevice and 'm not sre any fo.!!l THE COR: those parties. don't believe the cort has received MR. NEGS: Cold also reserve a hearing with respect to compliance on that to a later date? Yes. HR. NEGS: ill find ot why they didn't bring l f L the stff -- Certainly. Okay. Do yo have any other mattes yo wish to bring in front 0= the cort at this time!-r. Negs? MR. NEGS: Yes Yor Honor 'm going to be asking for a continance of the preliminary hearing date. another date set fo 'm also going to be asking to have the discovery motion which is directed towards the prosection asking them to get certain informatiop informatior for me from other governmental entities. My reqest wold be that the frther discovery motion r- o 0 be set o September the rd Excse me. missed that date. MR. NEGS: Friday -- at :0 in the morning. September the rd -- believe that's a And then wold also be reqesting that the prelimi -J J nary hearing date be contined ntil November the th. The reason have selected that particlar date is that in this

15 0 0 particlar case it is -- first of all it's very -- it's a brden on both the sheriff's department Mr. Cooper too believe -- to have to continally be corning back to cort on thi smatter. believe that November t. is a date which can realistically be prepared to go to preliminary hearing. don't believe that can realistically be prepared to go before that and jst as soon not have to keep corning back to cort and asking for continances. f the cort wishes can list a long list of reasols reasors why think that have -- it will take me at least -- it wil take me till November th to get prepared. motion. Let me address first yor discovery Have yo made any formal reqest for discovery as to those items that yo're referring to? }lr. NEGS: told Mr. Kochis that 'm going to give him a list and if -- if in fact we can work it ot informall' then wold be jst moving to take that off calendar. sspect becase 'm asking for information from some governmental agencies which Mr. Kochis doesn't have any control over that there may be some problem. 'm asking that that date be set. That's why Bt Okay. Consel either of yo wish to be heard on those two motions? MR. KOTTMEER: No Yor Honor as far as the motion for additional discovery. The difficlty is if these are r r ':

16 areas that appear to be otside of e normal needs for the preparation of or case we wold o??ose being pt in the position of being asked to be e ile-man or the go-between between the defense the cort and e other governmental agencies. So ntil we kno' specifically what they're asking we don't know whether it's a sitatio where we'll oppose it or not. As far as the date sees lke November the ith is 0 och too far away. TEE CORT: Consel wold t::in;': that -- well tl:ink perhaps the frther discovery motion an:: to settle all of the discovery matters by sometime te laer part of Septe...-nber - 0 will be agreeable. The prellinary ::earing date however think wold prefer to have a little bit earlier. R. NEGCS: Well if col be heard as to why think that it shold be -- THE COCRT: Yo may. MR. NEGS: First of all e -- in terms -- the main problem that have is jst to carry ot an investigation wold estimate that have spent 0 hors a week since -r L... L r - was assigned this case working on it trying to direct an investigation... have an investigator who is assisting me. He has been working an average of well over O hors a week jst.. investigating this particlar case. The -- there are a large n=ber of witnesses that

17 have to be contacted prior to the preliminary hearing. Mr. Kochis indicated that they intend to call 0 witnesses. With respect to most -- to many of those witnesses in the police repo=ts and in or investigation there are maybe six ten people that know varios things abot what those dif=erent witnesses are going to testify to and which we have to intervie' before before the case is broght to -- brogh to trial -- broght to preliminary hearing. Excse me. (... L The -- wold indicate that have so far received 0 over 000 pages of police reports jst as part of normal discovery. 've also received another 000 pages of varios logs reports and {terns like that which have received in response to the sbpoena dces tec which served on the sheriff's department. There are over 000 photographs that have to be stdied and looked at. There is a -- think Mr. Kochis' estimate was items of physical evidence. still in the process of inspecting that evidence. We are We've seen. -' -' r- 0 qite a bit of it; we haven't seen all of it. There is in addition -- we are waiting on the analysis of certain physical evidence by e crime lab which expect there to be testimony abot at the preliminary a hearing. That the particlar -- that particlar analysis is not yet -- is not yet complete and we are waiting for the crime lab to do some frther work before we -- before we make o any decisions abot what shold be done with that.

18 '--.. n this particlar case there are witnesses that have to be talked to in many di::feent geographical areas other than jst the normal Sothern Califonia or Ontario-type witnesses. There are witnesses in other states in other contries and throghot the State 0:: California in the sothwest. The we also have to arange believe if the itnesses we' e to anticipate the posection will be bringing in we have to arrange to bring in other witnesses orselves 0 from other states to rfte are going to say. some 0:: the things those witnesses 0 - The pblicity in this particlar case has meant additional work for me as well in that several of the people that normally cold cont pon to assist me have becase of the natre of this particlar case not wished to have -their names in the papers with qite the same feqency they cold anticipate. So 've had to try to find people that 'm not normally sed to working with to help me. There is in addition the -- several agencies besides the sheriff's department Federal Brea of that nvestigation the mmigration and Natralization Service the State Jdicial Police from the State of Baja Califonia Federal Highway Police in exico the the Department of Jstice that have also been involved in the case trying to track down their records and stff that's beyond the normal corse of discovery and takes additional time. on -' o f - f-' :J

19 ''- And haven't even started working yet on the legal isses involved in the case. noted at least there's six -- there's six different search warrants. The Penal Code Section isse think is complicated. t's a new law we haven't dealt with. 'm asking to take a certain amont of time for consltation preparation and consltation. ht any rate the amont of work that remains to be done believe will take n:y investigator anc myself at least two months to do. [ L- 0 think that can realistically be ready to go on November th and nless something nsal were to occr woldn't be able -- wold not be reqesting any frther continances. The reason why 'm reqesting that particlar date is becase it is a date think can be ready on and will not have to corne back to cort and ask for -- ask for any frther continances. wold note jst to give some idea of the size of the task that we have to perform that there was a task force according to the newspapers of some 0 sheriff's -r tj tj -Lj 0 officers that were involved in the prosection's investigation of the case and they've had three months to investigate to this particlar -- this particlar time. They've had a vast nmber of manpower. vle have considerably fewer people myself and an investigator primarily and it takes s a while to get it all done. -Lj lj Okay.

20 Did yo wish to respond? r-!r. KOTTr-EER: B!iefly Yo! Honor. wish to address the isse that was jst mentioned the investigative task force. The lion's share of their efforts were directed at the apprehension of!-!r. Cooper when he became a sspect and the vast majo!ity of the reports allded to in those 000 pages have little or no validity as far as the presentation of a p!elininary hea!ing. The difficlty that foresee in the co::t.ttlentary that 0 we have heard from the defense consel is that we are not getting ready for the trial. This is jst an effort to present the evidence and have it evalated by this cort as /--. to whether Mr. Cooper shold stand trial. That's why there's a vast difference between the amont of tie that spposedly shold elapse before prelimina' hearing and that ront of time that shold elapse before trial. And think that what has happened is that the defense in this case has taken the normal defense approach which is basically they have to be n 0 ready for trial at the time of the preliminary hearing and that am opposed to. Thank yo. Consel this is what think 'm prepared to do: 'm prepared to set the date of September rd for these matters: a o o For frther discssion regarding discovery problems yo might have in terms of reqests for discovery from the

21 District ttorney the handling 0: any problems that may reslt :rom a sbpoena dces tecm as to any other party who does not... ish to cor.:pl vii... i th those And think r. at that time as well. Hanoian we'll handle yor matter!>!r. F_Z.NOAN: 'm sorry Yor Honor. l'e are prepared to go in-camera... ith the records if that is the cort's desire. THE COR: \'ell no. wold rather ha\'e yo have 0 i some discssion... -ith!!.r. Negs an::: then at that later date we'll handle all 0: the matters. Consel if yo're going to bring a motion nder /- 0 Penal Code Section which believe is the Code section regarding closing the preliminary hearing to the pblic wol::: like to have that isse addressed on the rd.!.r. EGCS: That's going to be somewhat difficlt becase there is a:::citional matters that have to be sbpoenaec. mean tried to sbpoena as mch as cold for today's date bt there's jst physical limitations and 'm still trying to obtain somebody who can assist me in that. 'll do my best bt 'm not sre that 'll be completely prepared on that date. THE COCRT: 'm going to calendar it as an isse for that if yo... ish to bring it p. Also.on the rd 'll hear reqests from consel as n e e - to the location of the preliminary hearing. nformally it's

22 0 been sggested to me that the location of San Bernardino might be more appropriate in DeparLent. have discssed the matter ith Jdqe Chapman who is -- whose de?arent that is. He's been gracios in offering that department if we think it's necessary and so on the rd of September wold expect that 'll make some deterination of that and yo can be prepared to address to the col:rt any co!t!lents'yo CO!T!lents wish to in regards to that. No can yo think -- ca either consel think of 0 any other preliminary rratters prior to the prelirr.inary hearing that e shold have a formal setting for? KR. NEGS:!here may be certain matters with / respect to the physical evidence bt sspect that we'll be able to resolve those withot a cort hearing. r- MR. KOCHS: So do As to the preliminary hearing it's going to be helpfl for the cort to know the estimates and realize they're only estimates as to how long yo think the preliminary hearing will take. Mr. Kochis? MR. KOCHS: Yor Honor as mentioned earlier we estimate six to eight cort days 0 to prosection witnesss. Hy esti...ttate wold inclde a reasonable amont of time for cross-examination. Consel? HR. NEGS: think that's probably optimistic as '-' o 0 '0 : indicated in chambers. wold be intending to call at --

23 0 0 don't know how many witnesses wold be calling bt wold expect to be calling some witnesses at the preliminary hearing. wold tink that probably two or three weeks wold be the best we cold 00. Okay. t is the cort's intention to at the reqest of the defense and over he objection of the people -- to contine contin the matter ntil the cate of November the th which is a \\ednesday. wolc expect then that we will proceed from November the th OL e thereafter ntil we've copleted Fridays if Friday is a cort day. preliminary hearing every cort day it. That will inclde f the co akes a decision to hold the matter in San Bernardino it will involve dislocating Jdge Chapman and wold expect that at ovember is going to be a very firm date of the th and that there wold not likely be any continances of that date. Okay. Does any cosel wish to be heard any frther regarding that intended decision? t is t-!r. Cooper yo'.l have previosly been advised by this cort that yo have the right to have yor preliminary hearing within 0 cort days of the date of yor arraignment. Yo have previosly waived and given p that right. Do yo again waive and give p that right and consent that the matter be contined ntil Kove=ber the th at the hor of :0 in the morning? n L. a. C LJ

24 . -: THE DEFENDANT: Yes. THE COR: Do yo join in that waiver Consel? MR. NEGS: do. Okay. The matters will be contined first the -- for a hearing on September the rc at the hor of :0 and that will be in this cortroom at the hor of :0 in the morning for handling of other discovery motions motion and for a determination by the cort as to where the preliminary hearing will be held. 0 The preliminary hearing with the consent and at the reqest of the defendant is contined ntil Kovernber the th at the hor of :0. Anything frther from any consel? MR. KOCHS: THE COGRT: No. Okay_ The cort y:i be in recess. Thank yo Consel. (\-iherepon the proceedings were conclded.) r L.. L r -

25 REPORTER'S CERTFCATE STATE OF CALFORNA CONTY OF SAN BERNARDNO SSe NOEr-a LC:::P.ES Official Reporter of he above- entitled cort do hereby certify:! i f L- -; That am a Cerifiec Shorthand Reporter of the State of California dly license o pracice; hat did repott in stenotype he oral proceedings had pon hearing of the aforementioned case at the time and place herein- before set forth; that the foregoing pages nr.bered hrogh inclsive cocstites to the best of my knowledge and belief a fll tre and correct transcrip- tion from my said stenotype noes so taken. DATED This st day of Jne at Ontario California. 0.. LCCHES Official Reporter C.S.R. No '. c... L C